Do any of you have interest in such things?

In the space of one hour, I held, in my two hands:

1. Mariano Modena's Hawken Rifle

2. Tom Tobin's Hawken Rifle

3. James P. Beckwourth's Hawken Rifle. This rifle is the only known full stock flintlock pre-J Hawken rifle to exist. Jacob came to St Louis in 1818 and partnered with a man named Lariken (sp?) to build rifles. This rifle was built in 1823, and it is documented that Beckwourth carried it west in 1824. IIRC, Lariken died in 1830-31 (?) and that was the first year that rifles marked J Hawken St Louis were built.

I have been offered the opportunity to shoot the Beckwourth rifle when I return to the Santa Fe area with powder, ball, patches, and caps either this fall for my 66th birthday or in the spring. A friend, Jeff Hengesbaugh owns the rifle; and Y-E-S I do plan to take him up on his gracious offer.

I the space of four hours I held forty-three genuine Hawken rifles in my hands from the J Hawken, J&S Hawken, and S Hawken eras of the shop. One of these days I will share the entire story.

It was a pretty neat day.

Rich

Rich, if you have any, pictures would be really nice! Thanks for the call and conversation, thoroughly enjoyed it.

the museum was poorly lit, and with fluorescent lights.

I have been invited back, hopefully in September to bunk at Jeff's guest cabin. I will have two days to take every rifle that interests me out on the back porch and photograph to my heart's content.

That would include the J Ulrich signed fully engraved and silver plated Henry transitional rifle.

I can understand not taking any pictures then. Given my photography skills the best of conditions would turn out mediocre pictures!!!

How cool and what an opportunity...
A friend has a Hawken Rifle inscribed
To Kit Carson J Freemont
If you are a history buff your two rifles and this one may have swapped spit at one time or another
Good Shooting

Z,

that is beyond cool...

and priceless....

the Carson rifle probably spent a lot of time with #2, the Tom Tobin Hawken. Tobin's daughter married Carson's son; or the other way around.

Rich, I would love to see your photo report when you get the chance. I remember Jeff H. from early editions of the Books of Buckskinning. A very accomplished horseman.

Yes, we will be waiting for photos when the time comes!

Rich,
I have seen the Modena rifle. It used to be on display in the state museum in Denver but has long since been taken from view. Does Jeff now own this rifle?
Beckwourth's rifle is pictured in the latest Muzzleoader magazine. I was surprised to see it, to say the least. Do you know how it is documented that Beckwourth scribed his name under the barrel flat? The provenance of this rifle is VERY interesting. No other Hawken shop flintlocks have shown up that I know of. Doc Leonard's guns in Cody may have a percussion conversion.
Are these rifles available for viewing. Yes, I'm a Hawken nut and an old armchair mountain man........back to the days of John Baird and the Buckskin Report.

yellowstone,

funny deal there. The museum never actually owned the Modena rifle. It was on long term loan by the then three heirs of Gen. Jones. 12-15 years ago the museum wanted them to "donate" the rifle. They opted to get it appraised. Appraisal was $80,000. James Gordon, who owns the museum in Glorieta, NM, headed up a fund raising drive to buy the rifle from the family. They did get enough subscriptions pledged to buy it. By that time, a new curator was hired, and she (according to Gordon) did not feel the rifle important enough to obtain.

Two years later, iirc, James Gordon approached the family to buy it privately. He was able to sell some other historically significant firearms, and paid (he says) about a hundred thousand dollars for it.

It is sitting out, on top of a glass display case that contains Modena's horn and pouch, with accessories. You can actually pick it up and handle it.

I have the invitation to return and document those accessories and will have TC Albert replicate them for me. You mention the last ML Magazine.
The article by him shows the journal I convinced him to make to go with the replica of Carson's Dispatch Pouch he made me for Christmas (present from my lovely wife).

The biggest highlight, Gordon's museum has 43 documented original Hawken rifles...

Perhaps the best part; Jeff Hengesbaugh and I share an interest in the Old West, and fur trade era thru the mid-1870's. He bought the Beckwourth rifle, with Beckwourth's journal years ago. When he was researching the provenance of the rifle, he got a friend to X-ray the rifle. On the bottom flat Beckwourth scribed his name, and three other Beckwourth signatures have been compared. It is his signature, likely done around the time the rifle was converted to percussion. As you can see from the picture in ML it has enough tacks to give Mike Nesbitt a woody. Look at the conversion screw, it would have been quick and easy to unscrew it to clean the rifle.

The Beckwourth rifle is documented to have been in the West by 1824. Jake was partners with a man named Lariken (sp?) from about 1818 (?) on. Speculation is that Jake built the rifle in 1822-23. History, based on tax/business records in St Louis, is that they separated a few years later, and Jake opened the Hawken Shop. There are nine primary identifying characteristics that 99% of the provenanced Hawken Shop (built) rifles share.

I got to spend the afternoon at Jeff's house, drinking his beer and handling the rifle. He has invited me back to spend a couple days this fall, and I have the assurance that should I bring the powder and ball, I can shoot it!!

Back to the museum. Ten feet up the hall from Modena's rifle, is another neat Hawken, laying on a table that belonged (the rifle) to Tom Tobin, Kit Carson's contemporary. Tobin's daughter married Carson's son, or the other way around.

John Baird, there is a name to bring back memories of the pre-teepee creeping/clothes contest rendezvous era.
Somewhere here I have a complete set of Buckskin Reports.

This is approaching article length, so I'll sign off for now.

Rich

It was a great day for an old Hawken buff.
Do you know Steve Zihn up to Powell, Wyoming? He is replicating the Modena rifle for me. That was the reason I went to the museum. That, and Nesbitt's book review of James Gordon and James Taylor's great "Weapons In Early American History" that was reviewed in ML. It is an expensive book, at $135, but well worth it IMHO. I was talking to my lovely wife, about the fifth time, she told me to "just get in your car, and drive down and see it..." So, I did.

Thanks Jeff
That is a good bit of information. Now I know what happened to Modena's riflegunn. I have my own copy of the rifle that I and another (much better craftsman) built, but it's in .62 caliber.
I was in Chadron last month but refrained from buying Gordon's book simply because it was wrapped and I didn't want to tear into it. I didn't realize Gordon had a museum where I could fondle his extensive collection. Now another reason to ride fer the border, eh? Guess I better buy the book, even without Nesbitt's endorsement.

If I hear one more mention of Tacky Too or Too Tacky I think I'm gonna puke. I quit reading Mike's articles as I just can't stand his f----g coffee anymore.

I was at Grasshopper Flats in (78?) the night old Dinglehoofer got slit from gullet to gizzard. Medicine Horn, aka, Terry Johnston, the author now deceased, sewed John up, apparently enough that Ding made the big council the next morning. He looked pretty sick for sure. That was the year that the NAPR hierarchy wanted to buy the rendezvous property for a permanent site, and we'd all live in a utopian 1825 society. Yeah, right. Baird also past away a couple of years ago.

Sounds like we've ridden several of the same trails through the years although I don't know the fellow in Powell.

Believe I will add Santa Fe/Glorietta Pass to my travel route retracing historical spots from the buffalo hide harvest. I'm thinking about trying to do a coffee table book for the time period.......not a million book seller but I don't care. Just a continued interest in the Old West.

I am thoroughly enjoying this thread. I haven't read so much Hawken lore or recognized more than a few names in 20+ years. Shinin' times those were!!!

The sad part about mr Tacks-R-Us is that Jason has nobody representing the NW to replace him. If so, I think he would; or tell him to find something else to write about.

Glorieta is a must trip for those with an interest in the fur trade era, or the St Louis builders.

You NEED to get the book. There is more history there than any other book I have ever read, just from, the photos.

I mentioned the X-ray of Beckwourth's rifle. It also revealed the fact that the barrel is tapered internally, from both ends. The front section is .58 caliber or so, tapers over a foot or so to true .56 caliber for about the next 12-15 inches, then gradually tapers out to about .57 caliber the last few inches. It would have been an effortless speed load/reload, and the choked center area would have given the rifle fairly good accuracy.

Ask me about that in about three months after I get a 5-shot group at 100yds.

I could have spent a week there, and not have seen all of the neat things in the museum.

Rich
Waugh! them wuz shinin' times.

My apologies for misspelling ModIna's last name.

Horseshit! Your only 65?

I figured your for ten years older as much of a curmudgeon as you are.

We went to St Louis in 2004 for our 30th anniversary. I saw some genuine Hawkins at the museum of Westward Expansion which is sadly closing next week.

http://www.downtownstl.org/pla...-westward-expansion/

Great thread, too bad about all the conversions. Can't blame them for wanting reliability. But I love the flinters. Got a lefty Lyman Great Plains that is a blast to shoot. Pun intended

Can't remember whose it was, but when I lived in Santa Fe NM in the early to mid 70's, a museum there had a Hawken that belonged to someone famous. A client of our gunshop wanted a replica built of the rifle and he talked the curator into letting us handle it and take photos and measurements. The gent moved away from Santa Fe before it was finished and I never got a chance to see the recreation.

Rich...read your post on the Hawken rifles. Have you read the LeRoy Hafen 12 book set on Mountain Men & the Furtrade? Tis the most comphrensive collection of information on each individual trapper. Send me your email addy & we can chat about the books. Thanks Jake cva19@att.net

quote:

Rich...read your post on the Hawken rifles

I believe Rich is not allowed to post here any more.