I have been shooting my old T/C Renegade with Speer .490" patched roundball, using T/C lubed patches, over loads of 70 and 80 grains of Pyrodex RS, as per the manual. The groups at 25 yards are so-so, and at 50 yards the balls hardly stay on the paper. At the local ammo shop they have .495" Hornady and Speer roundball...would that be worth a try?

I realize that with a 1 in 48" twist the Renegade is kind of a compromise for roundball anyway, but am just trying.

Been through the same thing with the same rifle although I now have a 1:66" twist barrel. Have you tried thicker patches with the .490 ball? If it seems to load eaisly (ball/patch not very tight) your current patch is probably too thin and is probably correct with a .495 ball. You could buy some thicker patches to use with the .490 ball, and save the current patches for use with the Hornady .495's. I've found, for me anyway, the 495's with the thinner patch shoot better. Also, with the 1:48" twist you need to keep the RB velocities down to avoid blown patches and Pyrodex is a little "hotter" than most black powder.

quote:

Originally posted by sputster:
I have been shooting my old T/C Renegade with Speer .490" patched roundball, using T/C lubed patches, over loads of 70 and 80 grains of Pyrodex RS, as per the manual. The groups at 25 yards are so-so, and at 50 yards the balls hardly stay on the paper. At the local ammo shop they have .495" Hornady and Speer roundball...would that be worth a try?

I realize that with a 1 in 48" twist the Renegade is kind of a compromise for roundball anyway, but am just trying.

The real early T/C barrel shot RB's well but the later ones just don't have much rifling. The twist also can't take too much velocity in the large calibers. I could never figure why they used that twist for all the calibers back then. If you want it to shoot well, get a green mtn drop in barrel for it. I also found the Speer balls to be pretty inconsistent. Hornadys are better IME but cast ones are still best. . Take a micrometer & you'll see they are not very uniform. In tests I did a while back, the pyrodex was the worst BP substitute for accuracy and ignition. It also fouls badly & is even more corrosive than black powder. I like Swiss Black, but the best substitute I found is triple 7. I did some tests last year to see just how accurate a patched round ball can be. I used a 40 cal 1:48 twist & scoped it . It was pretty amazing. Had some 1" 100 yard groups and most were under 2. The black powder shot best but the 777 wasn't far behind. As for the 495's they will have about the same effect as using a thicker patch, but anythings worth a try. Those are good guns but the weak point is the barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by sputster:
I have been shooting my old T/C Renegade with Speer .490" patched roundball, using T/C lubed patches, over loads of 70 and 80 grains of Pyrodex RS, as per the manual. The groups at 25 yards are so-so, and at 50 yards the balls hardly stay on the paper. At the local ammo shop they have .495" Hornady and Speer roundball...would that be worth a try?

I realize that with a 1 in 48" twist the Renegade is kind of a compromise for roundball anyway, but am just trying.

Yes, a .495" ball WOULD be worth a try. You did not say what your patch thickness is. But that too is importent! I have a .50, and while it shoots .490" and .495" balls relatively well (best load: 90 grains GOEX FFG) it is MOST ACCURATE with .500" balls and .010" T/C prelubed patches (VERY tight combination!!). Same powder charge.

That 1/48" twiost should not be too much of a disadvantage - Many original Hawkens were 1/48" twist!

I bet if you downsized your load to the orginal 60gr. of pyrodex your accuracy will improve,try it. vangunsmith

Sputster: I would suggest trying the T/C pillow ticking (.015) patches with the Speer .490 ball over Pyrodox with charges from 25 to 90 grs. I have had marvelous results with that combination in T/C guns for 25 years. I used Pyrodex to win in competition for years in the late '70s and early '80s in a T/C Hawken. One hole groups at 25 and 50 yards were the norm. I found the Speer balls superior to the hornady and any commercially cast and still do. Though I shoot mostly flintlocks today, I have had over 50 T/C perc. guns over the years. If things don't work out you may have a bad bbl. It happens. Contact T/C.

Definitely try the .495's. To get really good roundbal performance out of my T/C, I put a Green Mtn. bbl. on her. NOW...with a .500 ball, .015-.018 patch, and range rod..I can get one hole 50, and 1" 100 yd grps.
If your combination isn't pretty darn hard to load...you're probably too loose.

Like Don said, if it loads easy it's probably too loose. But if you load tight, don't forget to spit patch between shots. If the .490 is still too loose with a .020 patch then use the .495. I used to buy pre lubed Ox-Yoke patches in .005 increments which made finding the right combo really easy. But then I found my way over to the dark side and use......plastic

You can still be saved. Move toward the light!
Sometimes a loose fit will work but most T/Cs I have used demanded a tighter fit. My flint .62 uses a combination that requires only one hand to seat and it punches one hole at 50. You never know until you try.