Guys , Iam having a real problem here, Shooting a winchester x-150 ,1-28 twist,Triple 7 2f ,cci 209 m primers, 240 gr. qt bullets from precesion reloading.In a 50 cal.Now the problem , I get a group of 3 shots touching in a clover then when I try to do it again I get groups as large as 3 inches. I went thru 30 bullets and couldn't do it again. Tried cleaning after every shot. Tried spit patching after each shot. The gun is beaded and the barrel is floated. The barrel been polished with jb bore paste.All the action screws are tight, even removed the scope and tested it on another rifle, it checked out fine. Is the triple 7 powder burn inconstant? I don't have a cronagraph to test the shots over. Any suggestions

Does the forearm have enough give in it to place pressure against the barrel while shoot? Another thing to consider as Randy has said is that you may need to try verying your powder charges until you get one that produces consistant groups. It may also be that your rifle does not like the 240 grain bullet and you need to try another. I have not fired T7 so I cannot comment on it consistancy of burn. I use only true black powder and stopped experimenting with the subs long ago as I never found any of the subs to be as consistant as true black.

Seating pressure is another big factor affecting accuracy. Make you you seat the bullet with the same amount of pressure each time. Inconsistant seating pressure WILL cause inconsistant burn rates with any powder resulting in poor accuracy. If using sabots you can plae a mark on the muzzle and align one of the petals with this mark the same way every time. Just do not mess with the crown. Consistant loading is very important to consistant accuracy.

If you use pellets you eliminate the inconsistent seating issue.Just a thought.

When I tried 777, I had to drop the charge to 80 grains to get 220 grain sabots to group. 295 grain powerbelts would group decent with up to 100 grains.

Randy, The gun shot about the same before the beading ann floating the barrel. yes i did have to remove a lot of material to get the barrel to float. I also bored 2 holes from the forend towards the triger group the lenght of the ramrod slot. Then epoxyed in 2- 3/8''steel rods to make the stock ridgid.I have tried power belts in 245 and 295 with triple 7 2f and 3f from 90 gr. up to 120 gr. had one group touching with 3 shots using 110gr. triple 7 2f and 245 gr. pb.Shot over 60 more with the same load could't do it again. Groups averaged about 3 1/2 inches. I shoot a lot of bench rest so I know it's not me. What about brushing with bore cleaner and patching between each shot what do you think ?

You may need to try lower powder charges say between 70 an 90 grains of powder. Try different powders. They will have different burn rates and pressure curves so they will result in different down range performance. You may end up trying as many as 12 different bullets and 6 different powders. Only you can decide if it is worth it. You may also need to try different brands of primers or caps. again it effects the burn properties of the powder affecting accuracy.

I would stick with the loose powder as you can not tweek your load as well with pellets. I have tried pellets and the fouling was harder and more gritty and accruacy was not a word you could use for the way it shot. Now milage will vary as every gun is different.

Quoted by 54JNoll,

quote:

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I have not fired T7 so I cannot comment on it consistancy of burn. I use only true black powder and stopped experimenting with the subs long ago as I never found any of the subs to be as consistant as true black.

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I have tried black powder as well. I don't like it and it didn't prove to group any better(in my guns)than Pyrodex. I don't see too many posters using black powder anymore. I bought some T7 granular but haven't had a chance to use it. I like the pellets. I get good consistent groups with them. I have killed many deer with them and they are ALOT cleaner than true black powder. I haven't seen any "gritty residue" from pellets either. This isn't a flame 54JNoll,just an observation. I understand that true black powder is getting harder to find.

I bought a Knight disc rifle last year and couldn't get a decent group using 3 - 50 gr pellets with 250 gr sabots. I called Knight and the fellow talked to me about quite a few options for better accuracy. He said the only way to get accuracy with the heavy charges was to go to a longer bullet for better stabilization. He recommended either the Knight or Barnes pure copper sabot bullets as they are longer. They shot very well with 150gr of pellets but are very pricey. OK to hunt with but not for practice. The 240 gr Hornady sabots would actually keyhole with this load. I guess it goes back to basics to lighten the load if accuracy suffers.

Small Fish,

No problem. THat is why I said milage may vary. I used Pyrodex for years while I was in Germany because of the additional restrictions placed on Black Powder over there. When I got back to the US I switched back to black because at least in my guns it cleaned up easier and ignition time was better. I will say that the clean burning subs I have tried while not providing acceptable accuracy in my guns was far easier to clean up after.

Black Powder is indeed getting harder to find locally. THe reason is that Black is classified as an explosive where as all the other subs are "propellants" and are in a less restrictive storage requirement catagory. Thus retailers can buy in greater volumes with less storage restrictions and regulations. Black does have the advantage of having half the ignition temp as any other sub so it will decrease ignition time although in most guns you will not notice the difference. I expect that I will shortly need to invest in a powder storage magazine and buy powder in case lots (25 lbs) at a time due to these restrictions making local dealers decide to not carry it anymore. Since I also shoot flinters I will have a continuing need for real black powder.

I am glad that there are as many powders out there as there are because it does allow tuning your rifle since some rifles will not shoot some grades or brands of powder.

I am looking to try T7 soon. Maybe it will do the trick. I am not a "magnum" guy and see no need for 3 pellets. I live in the East where shots "we" have here are perfect for 2 pellet loads and 240 gn XTP bullets. The Encore started to get a bad rep when magnum guys pushed too light a bullet through the wrong sabot. It is coming into it's own now and people are starting to identify the problems with the load combinations for 150 gn loads. I never had a problem working up a load in the Encore. I suspect that accuracy is waning with the higher power loads. I have no need for a flintlock at this time.

Sphinx,

I could not get my muzzleloader to group consistanly with T7 either. With Cleanshot the rifle grouped very consistantly at around 2 to 3 inches at 100 yards with open sights. I had high hopes for T7, but have abandoned it after shooting almost half a pound and numerous loadings and projectiles with very disapointing results.

I guess its like any other powder in that it may perform differently from rifle to rifle. It also fouled terribly in my rifle. As I said I had high hopes for T7, but have gone back to Cleanshot.

Mark.

Small Fish
Have you ever tryed 180XTP or 200XTP in your Encore I tryed both in mine and the best I could do was a 6 inch group some times not even that good. Some people have been telling me that is to light for my Encore so I got some 300XPT that I might try in a week or two.I have had a lot trouble working up a load for my Encore to get good groups.But I havent got to play with it much becouse of this weather we have had.

Shortmag:

I have had pretty good results with the 300 grain XTP bullets with my Encore. I have shot some good groups with these bullets but they occasionally produce a flyer that opens up the group to 4-5". The most consistent bullets that I have found so far for my Encore have been the 295 grain Powerbelts. Let me know how your's does!

BTW, have you ever had the chance to put together a pistol with those grips that you got from me?

Good to hear from you again...8point

I received a replacement barrel from T/Cencore in 45 cal with the 1:28 twist and working on a load with it using the t7,I tried it in the 50 cal and the 45 with 1:20 in twist last summer but didn't have much luck with it.
Shot a few rounds Sunday before the rain started and using 100 grs of fff7 and a barnes 195 gr bullet I got a 1.09 in group,don't know how the consistance is going to be yet and how many grs of powder it will take to make it more accurate but will try more loads when I get time.
I want a 200 or less bullet weight to shoot in the encore because I have other rifles that shoot the bigger bullets.
Will try to post a pic of some groups with the 50 cal encore and a knight dics in 45 cal.I took a deer at 155 yds with the knight but so far haven't got to shoot at one with the 50 cal encore.

i know this is getting off the subject a little but I had best success from my knight with sabots and powder I hate sabots but my knight loves them . As for pellets They don't shoot as well as powder. I think you just got to shoot what the gun likes not want you always like

My experience with "smoke-poles" (about 15 years) is every one has its own personality. you have to experimant and find what it likes. Start low on the charge and build up. you will find that low ans slow is fairly accurate, so you build until the groups start to fly apart. another key factor is seating pressure, only practice will help you get consistant on that.
I have tried the T7, found it quite fast (2350 with a 180 gr in a TC Omega 45) but have not found the right combo for good groups.

Make lots of smoke... and the groups will come.