I am hoping to purchase my first muzzleloader this spring. I believe I have it down to the T/C Omega and Encore. Between the two which would you pick, and why? I realize with the Encore the ability to buy other barrels for other calibers, but I plan on this being a dedicated muzzleloader. With that said, the reason that the Encore is still in the running is that I have heard people refer to it as the "Cadillac" of muzzleloaders, but I haven't heard them explain this description any further. If you believe this to be the case could you elaborate please?

Thanks,
Bob

If money were not an issue, I would go with the Encore (only those two guns in the race). The Encore is a proven design, has more support from secondary sources, has a better fitting though unusual stock, more room in the trigger guard area, and the trigger can be worked (if needed) without risking the $140 unit price of the Omega trigger/hammer assembly. Take a close look at the Omega trigger guard and the trigger/hammer assemblies before buying one. The Encore handles recoil much better also - at least for my build. Scope mounting can be a bit limiting for either rifle but there are scopes that fit well.

The extractor can be removed from the Encore enabling easy removal of the breech plug without requiring any other disassembly. That negates one apparent advantage of the Omega. Primers still come out easily in my experience and I think the extractor was simply carried over from the CF barrel designs for the Encore.

Both are front heavy but the Omega is very much more so due to the lightness of the action parts and increased barrel length (barrel length is not as claimed for either rifle IMO but the Encore comes closer to being as advertised).

Again, if those were the only two rifles I was considering and the price difference was not a concern, I would pick the Encore in SS/synthetic in .50 caliber. I own a 209x45 and it was a definite experience finding a load that would perform. I've only recently bought an Omega but it appears it may be just as challenging so far as load development. I think T/C needs to be a little more consistent in the quality of their barrels. My first Encore barrel wouldn't shoot anything well!

Second Encore barrel, trigger work, oversized hinge pin, and finally finding a terrific saboted bullet (forget conicals in either rifle) and I've got a really nice performing Encore. If I put as much effort into the Omega, it may also be a performer but first I have to figure out how to tame its recoil. Maybe a Kick-Eez pad?

It might be well advised to wait just a bit until the 2003 models from various manufacturers are announced - I think there will be some real competition.

Have Encore. Love Encore. Wouldn't even consider any other inline. Suggestion, buy an other barrel in a cheap caliber for shooting practice (mine is in 22lr). Get a trigger job. mine was done by Bullberry (3.5 lbs).

BTW, You don't have to get an inline. My .54 sidelock is just as accurate and more deadly. I don't know where you are located or if this is a hunting rifle. Most Hunting shots where I am locateed are taken @ 100yards or less. Either gun will do it at that range.

GO WITH THE ENCORE,ACCURATE,POWERFUL AND COMFORTABLE.
I SHOOT 100GR PYRO & PWR BELT SLUGS =1.5 @1OOYDS ALL DAY

I HUNTED OHIO'S 2001 MUZZLELOADER SEASON IT WAS COLD AND SNOWED
ALOT THE GUN WAS COMFORTABLE EVEN WITH HEAVY CLOTHES AND IT
NEVER FAILED = 1 DOE @ 125 YDS-ONE SHOT
I HAVE OTHER ENCORE BARRELS FROM VIRGIN VALLEY & EA BROWN AND
LOVE ALL OF THEM

MATT

Unless you just want a rifle that is only a muzzleloader I would definately go with the Encore I have had on for several years now and would not shoot anything else. I have added several different barrels both handgun and rifle and love them all. The Encore is the most accurate muzzleloader on the market in my opinion.

The Encore is the best fitting gun I have shouldered to date.I love mine.Wouldn't trade it for the world.Do yourself a favor and get a ss/synthetic one in 50 cal.You will love it.

Another vote for the Encore. It's been the most accurate muzzleloader I've ever owned.

Like Bob I had decided on TC, probably the Encore, until someone suggested Savage. Suposed to be the only BP that suggests using smokeless powder, and suposed to be the easiest to clean / maintain...any one gots one?

i owen both and love both and both shoot extremly accurate with almost no fooling around trying to find loads the fist load i used in each worked.

Bob,
If you do not plan on getting additional barrels as you mentioned. Then I would go with the Omega. You are going to save $100 or so and it will shoot just as accurate as the encore. Two of my buddies have the encore 209x50's. I have the Omega in 50 caliber. I have several contender frames as well as barrels. So I did not need to purchase the encore nor was I looking for additional barrel capabilities. Both the encore and the omega shoot very accurately off of the bench. Both shoot just as well from the field. Take the money you save on the omega and put it towards a good scope.

As for cleaning, the omega I feel has the edge. Just remove the breech plug and you have a straight through barrel to clean. No ejector, just a plug.

If you get the Encore you WILL get additional barrels. You will just not be able to pass up the versatility of the system.

Pick up and shoulder both guns.The one you will put down is the Omega(no pun).The one you will want to carry and shoot will be the Encore.You'll see. BTW Fisher,no-one leaves the ejector in an Encore Muzzleloader anymore because it is simply not useful.Open the action,unscrew the breech plug and you are cleaning it easier than the Omega.No need to remove forearm or anything.Absolutely the best system out there.

[ 01-21-2003, 04:20: Message edited by: small fish ]

Lets look at the facts here for a minute.

• Bob said this was going to be a "dedicated muzzleloader"
  

This takes away the advantage that an encore would have with the availablity of multiple barrels. He doesn't want it, so why pay extra for it.

• Both guns are advertised as 200 yard shooters.
  

Both guns are even in this catagory. Both are up to the T/C quality that we all expect as is the accuracy.

• Cost
  

On an average, depending on what model you get between the Omega and the Encore. You will see approximately $100 difference in price. The Omega being the lesser priced gun.
The only advantage that the Encore has over the Omega is the multiple barrel/caliber capability. Again Bob says he does not need that. So why pay more when you can put that extra $100 into a scope or accessories.

BTW Small Fish, you would be wrong. Many people do leave the ejectors in these barrels. I have no idea why, but they do. As for only having to pull the breech plug on the encore and it's ready to clean. No need to take off a forearm or anything else. That makes the encore the same as the omega, no better no worse. Flip the trigger assembly down and it disappears inside the stock. Pull the breech plug and your ready to clean. You do not have to remove the stock to clean the barrel on an omega.

Guys don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that the omega is a better gun. All I'm saying is that the omega better fits Bob's criteria for what he ask us about.

[ 01-21-2003, 08:27: Message edited by: Fisher ]

OK Fisher,I should have said that no-one "in the know" leaves that silly thing in the gun.Then I wouldn't be "wrong",right?I don't know who you hunt with,but I don't know anyone who uses/needs it.I am not attacking you here,just stating facts.
The fact remains that a good fit is the ultimate reason to buy a gun.It might be as accurate as a Savage centerfire,and be a 2x4 with a barrel ,but if it doesn't shoulder properly,you'd be tempted to leave it in the gunsafe,right?
I have nothing against the Omega.I have shouldered it as well as the Encore.I prefer the Encore.The Encore is the gun of choice for me,and I encourage everyone that wants to buy a muzzleloader to shoulder one in the store before making a decision.It's plain and simple.I think the Omega would be a good gun if that's all a person could afford,sure,but why settle for second best?

Small Fish, I am sure your guns are second to none. However that was not the question that was asked. If you notice in my posts I compared the Omega and Encore both in a good light. I did not say that one was better then the other. I only pointed out which one better fit Bobvhunter's specifications that he listed. I at no time ranked either the Omega or Encore 1st or 2nd in quality or accuracy. It goes without saying that how a gun feels when you shoulder it is a big part of making a decision on which gun you will buy. That being said, everyone has there own feel to a gun and that can not be debated on the internet. That is a personal decision that is made at the gun counter or maybe at the range with a friends gun. So telling someone "Pick up and shoulder both guns.The one you will put down is the Omega(no pun)" is certainly interesting but not factual.

As for who I hunt with. I hunt with a group of guys that I have known since high school. I have hunted with these same gentlemen and there sons now for the last 29 years. Why do they leave the ejector in there encore 209x50's. I have no idea. It is there gun so if they want to leave them in I suppose they have that right. No matter if someone "in the know" like yourself feels it is right or not. I am sure that they are not alone in doing this. You say that you are not attacking me. Ok, I'll trust you on that one. You say that you are only stating the fact. I believe the facts such as accuracy and quality are what we agree on. Personal opinions such as "I think the Omega would be a good gun if that's all a person could afford,sure, but why settle for second best? " are what we disagree on. Although this is your opinion and I respect your right to have one. It certainly has nothing to do with the facts.

If you are wondering why I personally bought the Omega over the Encore. It wasn't because I thought one was better then the other. I have contender frames and barrels. I really have no need for an Encore so the Omega fit the bill for me. If I didn't already have a good collection of Contender frames and barrels I probably would have gone the Encore route when it came out. However switching now would not benefit me in any way. There just is no need for the bigger calibers here in Ohio.

Ok I'm done for now. We can talk about that Savage thing later.

I didn't mean to "knock" your Omega.I said that I have nothing against it.I will say that the Encore is a better fitting gun to MOST of the people I know.OK,so it isn't "fact" per se.

I would encourage you to tell your hunting fraternity to remove the ejector in the Encore.Silly me,I thought that it was the first thing an Encore owner did(like removing the blisterpak on a two way radio package).Sorry if you thought I was putting your friends down,I certainly wasn't intending to.With that being said,what's wrong with the rating system.On these forums it seems absolutely unquestionably acceptable to do so.

My take,Encore ranks first.Omega second. It's an opinion.Yours may differ.

I'm tired of argueing with you about this. I choose to compare the rifles equally. Both have good qualities but for the most part they are equal. The only difference is personal preference on the buyers or owners part. You on the other hand feel that because you own it, it has to be the best. Or at least you must rank other guns coming in second place to justify your purchase I suppose. If that makes you happy then fine, I'm glad you're happy. You probably have never owned or maybe even shot the Omega. So a true comparison on your part is not something you can do objectively.

As for telling my buddies to take the ejectors out of there guns. Unlike you I would never tell someone what to do with there gun. If they choose to leave the ejectors in because T/C put them there. Then so be it, that's there choice. It certainly doesn't hurt anything for them to be there.

You tell me that you are not "putting my friends down". At the sametime you say what you have written below.

I would encourage you to tell your hunting fraternity to remove the ejector in the Encore.Silly me,I thought that it was the first thing an Encore owner did(like removing the blisterpak on a two way radio package).

If you say that talking to someone or about someone in this manner is acceptable or "Not putting them down". Then we probably shouldn't be talking at all. Because I choose not to talk down to people or belittle them as you do.

Later

bob,
I think if you do quite a bit of research on the subject you'll find that many people have had problems finding accurate loads for the Encore.
The obvious thing to do is to put both of them to your shoulder and purchase the one that fits you better.
As for all the talk about the Encore's stock, well, I don't like it. It's like trying to put an oversize club to your shoulder. The synthetic ones are a little better, but not much.
The Omega is everything its advertised to be and more.
Accuracy reports from nearly everyone are excellent.
I went through the very same decision process a few months ago. I was a dedicated Knight owner and T/C owner (Contender rifles). The one I chose was the Omega and I have never regretted it for one second.
If it is a ML that you are looking for, go for the Omega.
Ken

"You on the other hand feel that because you own it, it has to be the best. Or at least you must rank other guns coming in second place to justify your purchase I suppose."

I think we know now why you love your Omega.Sorry to have put "the best" muzzleloader out there down.My mistake.I guess I need to go out and buy an Omega.

I own both...I like both....Both shoot well...I'm keeping both of 'em
8point

[QUOTE]Originally posted by small fish:
"I think we know now why you love your omega"

There is no "We" here small fish. It's only you insisting that somehow the encore is a better muzzleloader then the omega.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by small fish:
I guess I need to go out and buy an Omega.

I doubt that you would do that, but if you did. You would at least be able to evaluate the two guns more objectively. You would certainly have more creditablity when it comes to evaluating them. Most people probably wouldn't own both, but they certainly may have shot both and owned only one. Someone who owns both like 8Point probably is more qualified to evaluate them then any of us. Only because he owns and probably has shot both of them extensively.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by small fish:
Sorry to have put "the best" muzzleloader out there down.

Small fish, why don't you find in my posts where I say that the omega is a better gun and quote that. You would be hard pressed to find in any of my posts on this thread where I have said the omega was better then the encore in an overall comparison. For that matter, I have not posted anything saying that the omega was better then any other muzzleloader. That is because as I have said above. Between these two guns, it is personal preference that will make up the buyers mind on which gun he or she wants.

Post what you want but no amount of sarcasm will change that.

[ 01-30-2003, 04:06: Message edited by: Fisher ]

Later days Fisher.You have way to much time on your hands.

Regards,small fish

P.S.Analize "THIS" while you're at it.

There is no "We" here small fish It says "one of us" under my name.Maybe you should reconsider.

[ 01-31-2003, 19:37: Message edited by: small fish ]

I wasn't planning on responding to your last post Small Fish because to be honest it wasn't worth responding too. Then you decided to edit your post and only quote a portion of something I said. So I thought I would reply.

Below is what you quoted me as saying and your resonse to it.

quote:

---

There is no "We" here small fish.

It says "one of us" under my name.Maybe you should reconsider..

---

Below is the complete statement that was in my post that you did not quote.

quote:

---

There is no "We" here small fish. It's only you insisting that somehow the encore is a better muzzleloader then the omega.

---

As most people can see there is a big difference when the whole statement is shown. Quoting only a portion of what someone say can be very misleading as I'm sure you realize. What I was referring to and still do is that you were the only one arguing your point. The word "WE" implies that there was at least one more person supporting your claims if not more. That just isn't the case.

By the way the words "One of us" as I'm sure you noticed is shown under everyones name that posts here, even mine.

Where's that confounded "iggy" button???

For your information young one,the original Encore had a blue-walnut configuration. It came out before you were old enough to shoot. The synthetic came out later.

I've had my Encore for 5 yrs. I don't need to prove to you what gun is better. I like the Encore more,just as I prefer Benelli to Remington. It's my choice. Go fight with someone your own age and mentality.

quote:

---

We thought a great deal of both.

---

Who the hell is WE?(coming from you) I speak for myself.

[ 03-20-2003, 03:54: Message edited by: small fish ]

Children,children. Everyone knows that a Hawken Rifle is the only way to go!lol derf

Certainly, a prettier way to go!