Read VAl Forgetts article on African hunting with the 58 caliber Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter and Hawkin with a 610 gr. bullet, He used 180 grs of FFG Goex in the Hawkin and 130 in the Buffalo Hunter, seems pretty hot to me from what Ive read on AR but whatever.. All was fine until he referred to the danger of a 4000 pound Cape Buffalo! and surey a 4000 pound buffalo would be dangerous, in fact If a Cape Buffalo ever weighed 4000 lbs,the human race would have forfeited Africa to the bovine community long ago..

How about 1600 to perhaps 1800 pounds live weight Val?

Ray, you'll have to give Val a pass on this, as cancer took him 15 years ago. His editor should have caught that.

Val Forgett was a gun guy, not a livestock appraiser; give him a break.
Most guys have no idea how much game weighs, especially on stuff that never gets anywhere close to a scale. Makes no difference then, or now and has nothing to do with what the did with the guns.

He was also lucky. With those loads in those guns, he should have blown something up.

In an article by Harold Peterson on the plains rifle, AKA "Hawkins".
Shorter barrels then the eastern PA and KY rifles, the plains rifles had barrels of 28-38" of 50 - 55 cal. Barrels were heavy enough for a min service charge of 100 grns.
The weight ran 12 -15 lbs or more to help offset recoil of powder charges sometimes reaching 215 grns.
I would assume the powder was not as potent then as now?

Remember they did not use steel for barrels then. Barrels were made from wrought iron, and were hand forge welded from strips of iron to make a tube. They had no way to drill a hole that deep, nor straight.
All Civil War rifle-muskets were made from wrought iron, roller welded from a piece of English iron; they were very strong. And their powder was at least as good as ours is now, from the mid 1800s on.
Mr Forgett was in no danger with his loads.

I just made a statement of fact, more in fun than anything else..I didn't know him, didn't know he had passed, said I liked the article but he was mistaken on the weight of a buffalo..

I actually found it a little strange and probably a misprint that someone who had hunted buffalo would think one could be larger than a Hippo. If I afended then I apoligise and it wasn't ment to harm..

I have exact twins to his two guns, a 58 Zouave Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter and a Navy Arms Hawkin, both made by Investarms.. I have shot both of his FFG loads using..180 grs in the Hawkin and 125 in the Buffalo hunter with no apparant problems, other than recoil in the Buffalo hunter, whew!!. Pressures run pretty high according to the new Lyman handbook at 9000, to 12,000..

My grandson and I intend to shoot a couple of elk with these two guns, with roundball at 1350 to 1400 FPS next elk season. unless they shoot the bullets better, I'll be working on that this summer.

I had a male bovine calf that kept getting out and I would have to chase it down and lift it over the fence to put it back in. This was daily. As the calf grew my muscles became used to doing it. Soon it weighed 4000 pounds and I was still doing it. True, that is a lot of bull.

Indeed but interesting! and I know an old cowboy who swears he did that more or less as a young man, and he was the strongest man Ive ever known, I believed him simply because I sure as hell didn't want to piss him off...

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
I had a male bovine calf that kept getting out and I would have to chase it down and lift it over the fence to put it back in. This was daily. As the calf grew my muscles became used to doing it. Soon it weighed 4000 pounds and I was still doing it. True, that is a lot of bull.

And the "big wind" continues to blow in Texas!

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
I had a male bovine calf that kept getting out and I would have to chase it down and lift it over the fence to put it back in. This was daily. As the calf grew my muscles became used to doing it. Soon it weighed 4000 pounds and I was still doing it. True, that is a lot of bull.

Thanks that made my day

Any flintlock shooters out there?

Got a Lyman Great Plains flint in lefty! A lot of fun to shoot.
Take it every muzzloading season. https://youtu.be/YbnnzWRfSmE