I own a .58 cal, 1861 Colt Musket with a 1:72 twist. This particular gun is one of the best Round Ball Shooters I've ever owned and is a real pleasure to shoot. I also shoot a 315gr, and a 525gr Minie with reasonable success but both these loads need further development.
The majority of my hunting has been with a .54 cal using both a Minie and a RB.
My question is this; Does anyone "hunt" with the musket, and if so, what type projectile are you using? Any comments would certainly be appreciated.
Respectfully, Russ

Hi Brent, I guess my question was not real clear on using the .58 Musket.
I most likely meant to ask: Does anyone use the musket in "favor" of the .54? It would appear that range estimation, although critical in both, would be much more pronounced when using the musket. It would appear the .54, with any projectile, is a much "flatter" shooting rifle than the .58.
I have no doubts about the power of the .58 doing the job once it hits. It's the hitting that seems to be giving me doubts. Of course more range work will help in this decision, just wondered if I was barking up the wrong tree before starting this task. There is nothing more satisfying than punching small groups with the round ball at 50 and 75yds and within that range I little or no doubts about the capabilty of the .58. It's those ranges at 100 / 125 where the .54 seems to shine. (as well as the .50, due to their higher velocity)
Thanks for taking time to respond.
Russ

RussB,

I think that if anyone else picks up on this topic (and there are few shooters, relatively speaking, of the .58 or .54 in the hunting fields) the discussion will dengenerate into a shouting match over which is best mass and caliber or velocity. Indeed, in the guns commonly available, this is the decision.

I have split the difference and shoot a .54/425/100 or .54/RB/100. I believe that a .58 would do as well as to trajectory but a .50 will not do as well as to energy. Also, my prejudices prevent me from ever embracing those darn plastic sabots!

Thanks Hobie, I do understand. Certainly don't want any part of that.
Respectfully, Russ

Russ,
I haven't shot a .58, but I would be very surprised if it was a whole lot worse in trajectory at 100 yds than a .54 roundball, and for sure, that is a good hunting combination out to 100 yds and smidgeon more. I would guess it might be a bit better actually. At 200 yds (of course that's beyond hunting ranges), I would bet that the .58 would much better than the .54.

It's pretty easy to wind it up and see what happens. I would simply sight both guns in for 100 yds, and then at 50 yds, hold for center and shoot a group to see which is higher. I'm not sure you will find a lot of difference, and powder charge will probably matter more than anything.

I'd sure try a .58 roundball anyway.

Brent

RussB,

I don't suppose I was really clear myself. I thought about simply editing my message and then thought that you might not see this if I did. So...

I think that if you were to compare the .58 to the .54 using the same powder to bullet weight ratio to be approximately fair (you still have the variable of the gun) the roundballs would be pretty evenly matched and within hunting ranges you couldn't find an advantage of one over the other in trajectory. The .58 with more bullet weight and diameter will be a bit more effective than the .54 if velocities are the same with either ball or bullet. The key is to not compare apples and oranges, i.e. balls to bullets. Even using a bullet of a different shape can affect the relationship between these two calibers.

Also, I think that people in general will have their perceptions affected by their level of traditionalism. Would I shoot a RB out of a Rifle-Musket? Not hunting. I'd never use a sabot. However, I do have an aperture sight on my .54 AND that .54 is a TC New Englander. In that gun I use either the ball or bullet.

I'd also like to point out that Thompson-Center (TC) tried to market the .58 as a conical shooter and failed. If it had sold well it would still be in the catalog. They do still sell .54s.

I note in a recent BP magazine that Mike Nesbitt reviews a .58 flinter. I believe (but am working from "memory" here) that the max load he tests with is 60 gr. While the gun shot well for him, 60 gr. is the legal minimum charge for deer here in VA.

What does all this mean? Heck if I know but I do shoot a .54...

[ 04-11-2003, 21:01: Message edited by: Hobie ]

Russ, I have a handfull of 50 caliber sidelocks that I normally hunt with but I decided to try my 58 cal Zouave 2 years ago for a change of pace. I cast my own minies and REAL bullets but hadn't really found a good, accurate load in the 58 compared to a .562 ball. I hunt on the coast of California and stalkingconditions can be pretty poor if it hasn't rained in the last day or two. To make a long story short, I killed a forked-horn buck at 75 yards and he dropped in his tracks, unable to get back up even though a follow up shot was necessary. He was standing slightly quarted lookingatme and I hit him a little far right. The ball entered through the ribs and exited his backside. I didn't get drawn last year so should be a cinch to draw this year and am looking forward to finding a load for the minie that I am happy with. I have had good results with oversize (.580) minies but they test my abilities to cast a good bullet with my crude equipment. I have been shooting quite a bit of cast in my 45-70 so I am getting much better at casting so hopefully I have theaccuracy prblem solved. Gettysburg Cemetary is full of goodmen who wished the 58 cal miniedidnt work as good as it did. After shooting the musket, I switched nipples on my favorite 50 cal to take a musket cap as they sure are easier to deal with in the field! Good shooting. Tom

Folks, I had the opportunity this weekend to shoot a new Minie in the .58 that I had not tried before. It was the RCBS 536gr "Hodgdon" Skirmish Bullet, cast at .578 with pure lead.
This particular bullet with 65gr Goex FFg is just the ticket as far as I'm concerned. The fellow who gave me the Minies recommended 45gr Goex FFFg for accuracy up to 100 yds.He said he is not a hunter at all, and only punches paper for fun as he is also not a serious competitor. My doubts of being able to hit at 100yd were completely unfounded. I was pleasantly surprised by the accuracy and lack of recoil. I was only given 12 of these as a "try" and did not get to play around with powder charges...too much fun poking small groups.
I now need to get this mould and cast up a couple of hundred in order to "play" with powder charges and ranges. BTW; I did not have my chronograph with me at the range so I don't have a clue as to what was actually happening. I would suspect velocity to be somewhere in the range of 1,000 to 1,100 fps. The difference in sight pictures from 50 to 100yd was from a "fine bead" to a 6:00 black sitting on top of the sights. Seemed to work fine.
Many thanks to all that took time to respond.
Respectfully, Russ

Russ, is this a 2-band Colt? If so, my son-in-law let me use his (he's a Confederate cavalry reeenactor). It sure shot well with a patched round ball!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hobie:
[QB]RussB,

"The .58 with more bullet weight and diameter will be a bit more effective than the .54 if velocities are the same with either ball or bullet."

Hobie...We are in complete and total agreement on what you say. However, the secret to this would be getting that .58 up to speed with out blowing the groups.
Ballistics, as we it know today, are weighted heavly in favor of velocity. Perhaps that is as it should be. I don't know of a better method of getting "energy". I do know, from personal experience, that a heavier projectile with a larger frontal area, can give as good of "energy" as a lighter and faster smaller projectile, albeit, greater difference in trajectory.

Getting the most of both worlds requires more powder for the heavier projectile, or, more mass for the lighter projectile. Both result in more recoil and, quiet often, less accuracy.
Appears to be something of a "Mexican Stand off", until the sabots came along.
IMHO, The sabots were designed, and marketed, to be able to mix apples and oranges without the resulting recoil. But, I don't have a clue as I don't use them. I'm sure that those that do use them all have very valid reasons, and I respect that.
Prior to owning this first Musket, I also had no use for Long Barrel Rifles for hunting, Now I'm having to re-think that. But all things being equal...life is still good.
Respectfully, Russ

Russ, thanks for the info. In the Colt two-band, I used the Hornady .570" round ball, a .015 Ox-Yoke lubed patch, and 120 grains of FFg. It was very accurate, but hit about 12" above point of aim with the military sights. I think one of these with an adjustable aperture rear sight would be a great hunting rifle for deer or elk. This .570" ball is quite impressive. I have been looking for an equivalent lighter rifle or carbine, like the Enfield Musketoon, but am trying to find one with a 1/72" twist, and a lot of the carbines seem to be rifled 1/48", which is a little faster than I want for heavy charges with the round ball. I do have a .58 flintlock Hawken with a Green River Rifle Works 1/60" 36" octagon barrel, but the gun is a little heavy. However, it shoots both round balls and the Lyman #57730 570-grain minie very well.

[ 04-16-2003, 17:30: Message edited by: eldeguello ]