I am now convinced that the Encore has a distinct advantage over the Omega.The primer ejector!The Omega has no provision for it while the Encore has a clear advantage being that it HAS a primer ejector that can be useful if used properly.It is definitely a left over from the Encore's centerfire design but it seems that with the advent of the EZ tip you can have your cake and eat it too!I'm going to get an EZ tip and feel confident that it is a better designed muzzleloader than the Omega.I am happy that they made some good use out of a "leftover".
A "stuck" primer has happened to me once and it was a bear to flip out of the nipple.It didn't cost me a deer but it was not pleasant.With the EZ tp I will be able to utilize the primer ejector and not have it get in the way of simple cleaning tasks.
Life is good.

SmallFish, have you been a pain in the ass all your life or have you just come into this lately. You need to move on and get over the fact that your precious encore is no better then the omega.

I happen to agree with small fish, but not because of the EZ tip.

The Encore's internals are superior to the Omega's. If you happen to get an Omega with a rough or hard trigger (or one with an action that doesn't seal properly) you'll find no guidance to correct it (other than "send it back"). If you decide to hone the trigger mechanism yourself, you are putting at least $140 at risk as the parts are not sold individually.

There is great aftermarket support for the Encore, multiple vendors of quality barrels and stocks, instructions for trigger work are freely available, and the rifle's versatility is a matter of record. The length of pull on that seemingly weird Encore stock is longer and better suited to more shooters. The area inside the trigger guard is greater and is less torturous to large hands with heavy loads.

The hammer on an Encore is really a hammer while I'm not sure what to call the same part on an Omega.

I own two Encores and HAVE owned two Omegas. There is a reason the Encore costs more and it isn't just that it's a more complex design. Quality differences are evident.

T/C "almost" got it right with the Omega and maybe the next iteration will get even closer. They took an eloquent design and implemented it in poor fashion, IMHO.

Take a hard look at the springs in an Omega. Or the trigger piece or the hammer piece or the plastic bushings that hold them in position.

And I have a question about published barrel lengths in general. If I put a piece of pipe on the end of my barrel is my barrel longer? Or do you suppose it has something to do with the length of the rifling? T/C needs a refresher as do others.

small fish/Fisher - Do either of you own (or have owned) both models?

You know, the little G2 Contender in 209x45 may yet best them both if it ever becomes a reality.

[ 03-11-2003, 08:29: Message edited by: Underclocked ]

As you know, UC, I've done a fair amount of shooting with both in .50 cal.

Both are competent. The Encore is my preference, especially when equipped with a walnut stock.

The Omega suffers from a stock that is too short, a trigger that has a slippery face, and a trigger that is not as good- nor as repeatable as the Encore. Add the walnut stock to the mix, the .50 caliber Encore becomes better balanced than the Omega, and is a noticeably softer shooter to boot. Rather than rely on a plastic cover, the Encore's sealed breech does a better job shot-after-shot. A little mung on the barrel end of the Omega, you get a little gas. No biggie, but not a factor at all with the Encore.

Add a .308 barrel to Mr. Encore, you now can take most hooved North American animals with ease. The Omega remains what it was designed to be . . . a non-FFL, lower-priced alternative to the Encore.

[ 03-18-2003, 15:45: Message edited by: RandyWakeman ]

Randy, don't you have a video out that shows comparisons of not only those two models but several others in .50 caliber? Maybe you could tell us a bit about that video and how a person could get a copy?

Ah, UC, from Missouri, USA, here's a downloadable clip - - - 3.4 MB, plays via Windows Media Player.

21st Century ML trailer

I've got them, Gamaliel has them, 1-800-356-6230, etc.

Yes, UC, you love it, you need it, you can't go to bed without it! What a band, what a night, what a crowd, what a tape. Good enough?

[ 03-21-2003, 03:48: Message edited by: RandyWakeman ]

Gentlemen, I am very tired of discussing this topic. The Omega will shoot as accurate, as far and as hard as the encore. If multiple barrels are not in the picture as was discussed in the original topic.

Omega or Encore

Then this topic has become a matter of personal preference. Anything more is just a waste of band width.

Underclocked, your comments about the Omega has received mixed reviews on other websites as well. So it doesn't surprise me that you continue to degrade the Omega here too.

Randy, I am 6'2" and do not feel in any way that the Omega stock is to short. So once again, this seems to be a personal preference to the shooter.

The Encore has had the benefit of many years of field experience through the Contender. The Omega only a few concidering that inlines have not been on the market all that long in comparison. Field experience has always been the learning tool of the manufacturers as I am sure it will be with the Omega. That being said, I still believe as do many others that the Omega will hold its ground in accuracy, range and killing or knockdown power when compared to the Encore. These are statistics that can be measured and repeated. Unlike personal preference issues like smooth triggers surface, stock length or wood verses fiberglas.

[ 03-11-2003, 19:31: Message edited by: Fisher ]

It's fun to break things . . . but expensive.

The first manifestation of the Encore we had was a camo / SS version. The Encore's semi-hollow plastic stock stunk, with an instant collapse pad as a bonus. Popped my shooting glasses every other shot, and I didn't care for it. It was the walnut stock set that changed the gun.

The Omega was a laminate / SS. Grinding a Kick-Eez would solve the length preference, and balance the thing out a bit.

So, a better recoil pad is hardly a reason to / or not to buy a gun. BTW, the Encore walnut buttstock's pad, while better, is no prizewinner.

Both the Encore and Omega have the very uncomfortable skin-slicing T/CA ramrods of doom.

Now, to address the general stupidity of most ML makers: you offer SHINEY stainless steel barrels, and "Camouflage" stocks. Are we supposed to blind our game with the barrels, then disappear in to the trees with our plastic camo or ?

Bright stainless + plastic get along as well as hogs on ice.

I have to admit that if I had not gotten into shooting contenders many years ago I probably would have picked up an encore when they came out. They do have there advantages over the contender. However here in Ohio there isn't much use for the bigger calibers that the encore allows for and buying one so I can re-cock without openning the chamber is not a good enough reason. One of the things holding me back is that if I buy one I would have to tell Small Fish. I think he would just enjoy that way to much.

The stock for my contender really was a poor excuse for a stock. I resolved the issue by putting a Bullberry wood stock on it. That made it feel much better not to mention better looking.

With my Omega I opted for the camo stock and the blued camo barrel. My only concern, I just know I'm going to lay it down in the woods and lose it someday. Actually my concern was the camo wearing off of the blued barrel. Only time will tell I guess. As for the camo and SS. I bet they sell a bunch of them. If for no other reason then people think it looks cool

Fisher, do you use the same handle on other sites? You've an advantage over me there if not as I'm the same guy everywhere (equally nutz). I'm sure my opinion is worth no more and certainly no less than yours. Enjoy your Omega along with the many other Omega owners that seem quite happy. I just didn't like mine for the reasons stated.

UC,

Let's admit the real reason, here: you don't like anything that you have owned for more than a month!

Randy, that isn't quite true. There is only one rifle in my guncase now that I don't care for and it probably won't be there much longer. I won't mention which it is for fear of offending some other owner that thinks that brand/model is the cat's meow.

Seem to remember you selling your Omega and keeping the Encore?

My White and my Encores won't be going anywhere soon - unless I'm with 'em.

I sold something and kept something and then I think I bought something, but I'm not sure where it is, why I sold what I sold, kept what I kept, or bought what I bought!

It is all according to a carefully crafted master plan! Not sure whose plan, either . . . I'll have to get back with you on that.

Underclocked, I always go by Fisher when I�m posting on these type of sites. The website that I was referring to is a muzzleloading site. I�m at the office right now and don�t have the site in my favorites here or I would look it up. I will find it when I get home and edit this post with the name. Here is the site Black Powder Guns & Hunting . I am assuming it was you posting about the Omega. Your name is pretty unique, but I could be wrong. On the other site you also said that you didn�t like the trigger guard because it always dinged your fingers.

You are absolutely right about opinions. They certainly will differ. I just think we should be comparing apples to apples when we look at these types of things. We should be comparing the Omega to the other dedicated ML's on the market, not to the Encore. They are two completely different guns and were designed for different types of applications. That is why when I compared the two. I rated them equal in the areas that they were comparable (range, accuracy, killing power and cleaning). Beyond that, they are designed for different applications. As for the Omega being the better gun or the cats meow. I don�t think that it is. It just fits my needs better then the Encore, just as the Encore fits your needs better.

I just read back through your other post and noticed you had asked me a question. I apologize for not answering it before. No, I do not own both rifles. I did have the luck of being able to shoot the 209x50 encore prior to buying the Omega. My hunting buddies have them and were gracious enough to let me shoot them. Even though the Encore is certainly a quality gun. I choose the Omega because it better fit my needs. I had no need for the option of using additional barrels. I have all the barrels I need with my contender.

[ 03-13-2003, 02:40: Message edited by: Fisher ]

Fisher,

Funny how you attack me and continue to analyze every sentence on here without any chiming in from ME! I don't give a rats ass what you buy,or think that you want to buy. You don't concern me one ioda!You live in Ohio for cryin' out loud!!!!!!

If you like the Omega,then go ahead and shoot the thing! I happen to PREFER the Encore.GO AHEAD AND ANALYZE THAT STATEMENT!

To the reasonable posters here,I was just trying to explain my suprise to find out that a leftover design implementation can be so useful,as in the primer ejector.

My original intent when starting this post was to explain the advantages of the primer ejector that the Encore has but the Omega does not.I guess I got off on the wrong foot,or bought,and like the wrong gun.Thanks Fisher.

I think the best thing you can do Small Fish is grow up. You have a nice day now.

Okay here I go,I`m an Encore owner,yes I bought it for the extra barrel options,accuracy wise I`m not all that impressed.My first in-line was a $129 cva staghorn,complete kit with accessories for that price,had the easy start barrel(or whatever they call it) but the main thing is,it shot just as accurately as my almost $600 encore,I got the ss\synthetic stock 209x50,it handles recoil very well,I`ve used 3 50gr clean shot pellets with a 420gr saboted lead bthp and other than the scope/glasses connection,the percieved recoil was no worse than my 45-70 nef handi rifle with decent handloads.The sights on my rifle were the cheapest crap I have ever seen,2 heavy loads and they had to be re-zeroed,called T.C. and complained (a lot) they sent me the click adjustable fiber optics free of charge,that made a difference,now they stay where they are set,no more plastic sliders but real click adjustments,I have not shot or actually even seen an Omega,but if it`s the gun you like,I`m happy for you,you saved some money and probably time (getting T.C. to correct their cost cutting crap of a sight system)I`m looking forward to more barrels,but think they are over-priced from all the posts I`ve seen on mediocre accuracy,should have kept the cva and just got a few more barrels for my 2 handi-rifles (that both group well under that magic 1"and cost less for the whole guns than one encore barrel)jmho& I could be wrong.

Rest easy . . . there was no probe involved!

Ahhh . . . we do get vitriolic about our lumber and pipe, don't we?

Fisher, he's definitely hiding something where that incident is concerned. I don't know that I would believe him about the probing.

Randy, could we have some of your opinions that aren't freebies? And quit makin' me look up words!

The fascinating part about the Alien Abduction was that I had BOTH my Omega and Encore with me when the incident took place.

The Aliens were taken with both models, and under strained interrogation asked me if either of the devices did anything different.

I answered "no." The sophisticated Alien technology of electromechanical synapse stimulation proved the veracity of my response-- and I was free to go.

[ 03-15-2003, 04:50: Message edited by: RandyWakeman ]

You two guys crack me up.

Randy, I bet it sends chills down your back just thinking about what might have happened if you answered yes the that question put to you by the aliens.

Don't forget to wrap aluminum foil around your head so they can't read you mind

Later guys, have a good weeekend. It's suppose to be in the 60's here for the next three days. I may have to make a trip the the range.

Just as I thought.

Alien discussion should be posted on a different forum (one that I will never got to).

RandyWakeman
Just because I termed it an "ejector" and not an "extractor" I am "whatever degrading term that fancies your meager mind at that moment in time",or whatever. I simply put forth the premise that if it were not for cleaning ease,I would have left the "extractor" in.
I had a primer stick pretty bad once,and that prompted me to believe that the "extractor" could be of some use.The Omega has no "extractor",so if a primer got stuck in it(being that it is the same thing)as you stated,there would be nothing you could do.That's it!Plain and simple(to some).

Randy Wakeman

Your last post proves that you are shooting at a range and not a hunter. Your penknife idea is the biggest bunch of BS excuse I've heard in a long time. A quick followup shot is a concern to any good hunter shooting blackpowder guns.Borebutter is for rookie greenhorns.

It seems you're new here. What a shame for the integrity of the forum. Good luck being recognized as a poster of integrity and knowledge 'cause you WILL need it. Have a good life.

[ 03-18-2003, 03:28: Message edited by: small fish ]

I think it would be much better to discuss the merits of the rifles involved based upon individual observations rather than slinging insults. Can't see how that adds much to this or any other forum.

Don't worry, UC. It is rare to find such a sadly deficient finned creature that takes bait this easily! Who is the puppet, and who is the puppetmaster? Just promise me you are not related to this obviously gay fish!

Wee little tiny Smallfish. Is that your real, or perhaps a "FAKE" name?

All the billowing boneheaded buffoonery you like to spout out of your piehole means only one thing---------

You are an amazingly humorless fellow.

By the way, don't take the "Alien" stuff too seriously.

Shhhhhhhhh . . . between you and me, it was tongue-in-cheek. It didn't ACTUALLY happen. Please don't tell anyone else.

I hope somehow you can get over your Omega complex. There are other models produced that you don't own that you can mindlessly argue about, BTW. You "stuck" a primer in your Encore once, and that makes you obsess about an Omega? Aside from being the poster boy for Planned Parenthood, you might try to find higher goals. One thing is clear-- sticking a primer in your ear should not concern you, as it would easily pass straight out the other. Perhaps electro-therapy can help you with your primer phobia? Any other guns you have never owned that you care to voice ape-brained concerns about? No reason to limit the fascinating depth of your imbecility to only one piece of pipe! You started this thread, crying about prying a primer out of your Encore nipple. That is an amazing feat in itself, as the Encore has no nipple. Nor an ejector.

You are easily confused. If you think a nipple is something you pry things out of, that would explain your excessively hungry childhood. Now, be a good little fish and suck on your own pipe- keeping those nasty fishlips away from the innocent pipes of others.

Now, I'll continue to wonder how all this moose, caribou, venison, snow geese, grouse, teal, pheasant, and dove appeared in my freezer from shooting only at paper. I must be getting good!



You are probably wondering how I popped all those doves with one shot? Can't honestly say.

How we were forced to shoot these charging boars who were hiding behind "Shoot N' See" targets at the indoor pistol range is equally astonishing!



[ 03-18-2003, 16:05: Message edited by: RandyWakeman ]

Is that you in the middle behind the human beings in the second(rediculous) photo???

[ 03-20-2003, 04:25: Message edited by: small fish ]

Yes.

[ 03-20-2003, 15:24: Message edited by: RandyWakeman ]