Anyone got one of these? I am interested in load data, bullet weights, velocities, groups, etc...

I have the opprotunity to purchase one, cheap, and I would like to know what I am getting into.

What I am looking for (hoping for) is ~600grains at ~1600 fps, or 500 gr at 1750, and 2" at 50.

yeah, sounds like I want a cart gun.

jeffe

Jeffe: I have had these rifles in .58 and .72, and recently obtained one again in .58. I didn't get serious last time out at the range with it, just enjoying shooting up a box of Hornady roundballs. You have to think of these as two rifles sharing a stock. Just a glance at some chronograph data from the previous.58: .570 Hornady RB, .015 patch, 100 grains of Goex FFg, 1475 fps; 120 grains, 1650.
120 grains of Goex FFg and Rapine Pritchett ball, 555 grains -- 1277 fps.
You can easily get two inches from each barrel at 50 yards with round ball loads, adjusting each rear sight for each barrel -- and possibly both barrels using just one sight. I have not shot enough conicals to know what sort of accuracy I can get, but conicals are a much fussier projectile in any muzzleloader, musket or double, in terms of bore fit. The Pedersolis are .580/592 according to specs. The Civil War target shooters will tell you you really must have a minie within .001 of bore size to expect accuracy. So until I have tried the Kodiak with a .579-.580 minie, I am reserving judgment. If you try to shoot a .575 or .577 conical from the Kodiak and expect great accuracy, you are likely to be disappointed. I have heard reports that the LEE REAL bullet shoots very well in many Kodiaks, and will try this one, but it only weighs 440 grains.
I have spoken with a fellow named Ken Carassia (sp?) who used his .58 Kodiak on large African game, including Cape buff, and he was shooting a 600-grain or heavier bullet over 160 or more grains of powder, but he first had the tang bedded to keep the stock from splitting, as this load is well beyond Pedersoli's recommendation. So this rifle can be a challenge, but it is one I welcome personally. The guns are well made and a great value to a BP gun crank.

For additional info on the performance of heavy .577 Minie-type conicals, read what Val Forgett reported about his African hunt with a 620-grain flatpoint Minie ball with very heavy charges. The performance of such balls with 160+ grains of powder is awesome!!

I have a Kodiak in .54 with 1/66 inch twist for round balls. It's regulation seems correct for balls @ 75 yards, but does not shoot well with conicals. I have heard from others that the .58's seem regulated pretty well with Minies, but some owners have found otherwise.

[ 07-03-2003, 21:36: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

ElG,
What kinda velocity with the 160+ grains?

jeffe

This is my experience with my .58 cal. Kodiak Double Rifle:

The first time I took it out shooting, I fired maybe 6 shots, at which time the front site fell off due to the screws holding it on becoming stripped out in whatever sort of pot metal the barrels are made of. So home I go to drill/tap the screw holes and replace the screws.

The second time shooting I get about 8 shots of and the rear trigger jams and will not work. So again I cut things short, go home, and take the side plate off. Now part of the sear mechanism has snapped clean in two. I send it back to get it repaired, 5 months later it comes back.

The third time I take it out to shoot, the front trigger jams up with the same result, the same part is snapped in two. This gun is now a door stop.

This is without a doubt the most poorly made gun I have ever owned. The steel (if it is steel) is extremely soft, I have no idea what grade it is but it must be scraping the bottom of the barrel in that regard. The triggers, when working, were atrocious, would alternate between being so stiff you could hardly pull them to creepy and spongy the next time. What can I say, lousy barrel steel, lousy trigger mechanism so brittle that it snaps, damned lousy gun that can't be trusted in a hunting situation.

Jeff, if I remember correctly, Forgett used a 620 grain wadcutter-type bullet, and I believe with the heaviest charge he used, he got around 1600 FPS. He shot lions, wart hogs, etc., with only 120 grains of FFFg and this bullet. I have a .58 single barrel in which I use the 570-grain Minie (Lyman 57730) and 120 grains of Pyrodex RS. This load gives me a muzzle velocity of 1200 FPS. The gun weighs nine pounds, and has a 36", 1/60" twist barrel. Recoil is enough that I would not want to shoot a heavier powder load with the 570-grain bullet, but the gun has a 1" octagon Green River Rifle Works barrel, so it would undoubtedly handle heavier loads if I could stand to shoot them! I think a 570-grain .58" bullet at 1200 FPS would kill almost anything in North America! I use the same powder charge with a .570 round ball in this gun, and, strangely, it shoots both types of bullets to almost exactly the same point of impact at 100 yards. This is good, because this rifle has fixed sights, and it can only be adjusted with a hammer and a file!!

Dear Head: Sorry to hear about your experience with your .58!! I have not had that kind of trouble with my .54, but of course, using round balls, it has a lot less recoil than yours would have with conical bullets. My Kodiak is the one made for Dixie with the non-pistol grip stock, but I don't believe it would be of higher quality that the Cabela's version! Mine has the front sight mounted on the rib between the barrels, not on the barrels themselves. The triggerr pulls are a little on the heavy side, compared to other rifles, but I have not weighed the pulls. As far as I can tell, ALL the metal components on mine are made of steel, but it may very well be soft steel. Soft steel or iron is not unusual in muzzleloaders which operate at so much lower pressures than modern weapons. The barrels are plenty thick, regardless of their composition, and these guns will handle heavy charges! My "normal" load for RB shooting in .54 cal. is 110 grains of FFg or the equivalent of a BP substitute. None of the parts on mine have broken, but I did replace the unbelievably sorry ramrod that came with it!!

[ 07-04-2003, 17:20: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

TH: Sorry to hear of your negative experience with your Kodiak. I have had three over the years, two .58s and a .72, and no such problems. I have also had three or four Pedersoli double-barreled shotguns with essentially the same lockwork with no problems. However, if I were going to use one of the Kodiaks on a serious hunt in Canada or Alaska or Africa, I would have the tang bedded and have the locks and triggers examined and worked over by someone who really knows ML locks.

Man, I must have gotten a real lemon then! Mine is also the straight stock model from Dixie Gun Works. I was shooting light to medium loads at the time, both ball and conical, so I don't think I was pushing things with it.
Clarification on the front sight, it is mounted on the rib, not the barrel, so I misspoke there. It looked to me as if Pedersoli just drilled holes and then just "stripped" the screws in without cutting threads first, very faint threads here so the sight was barely held on. This gun has some very poor workmanship on it.
I will say that when I was able to get a few shots off before something breaking it was very accurate and the barrels seemed to be well regulated, I just never got a chance to fine tune it much. It's been locked up in the back of my safe for about 5 years now, maybe I'll break it out and tinker with it some.

TH, I have heard that the .58's appear to be well-regulated. The .72's also! Since regulation is the most critical and expensive part of building a double, perhaps it would be worthwhile for you to fix the other things that were wrong with yours, and try it again!!

Thanks tons, GUys.

Talking head, how much do you want for yours? send me a pm/email

I am still hung between getting the kodiak and playing with it till the 45/70's come in from EAA, and just getting a 45/70 barrel for my handirifle, boring it out to 45 basic/jeffe and doing load dev.

Any ideas on a BP subts that is fairly clean (don't have to CLEAN the barrel that night, if you are on a multi day hunt and take something everyday)

I had thought 5744, but that's NOT for stuffers, rather BP cart. guns.

1600 with a 625 would be more than enough.. that's right on the heels of the 577 BPE.

oh well, i need to go think about things more.

Jeffe, there was an interesting article in the Double Gun Journal about a year ago by a guy who took one of the Kodiak's to Zimbabwe and took eland, kudu and the like with it. Described his modifications and loads. I'll see if I can find it and make a copy for you.

Also, I got in the Whitworth 375 I mentioned at our ASC shoot in June. Nice gun with surprisingly pretty wood. It does indeed scratch up the cases on the dummy rounds I made up. I need to think about trigger and safety options for it. Have you played around with one of these? Bob Cuyler

Bobc: Sent you a private message. I would sure love to see that article in the Double Gun Journal!
Bill

Bob,
I built Mike's 416 on a mark X... the trigger is just "mauser 98" and the safety is falling off a bridge easy... in fact, the factory is "ok" but a model 70 safety would be even better. (at least 150 bucks)

would love to see that article..

we can polish the ramp a bit any time

jeffe

Bill, I got your address and i'll send a copy to you. Jeffe, can you PM me your fax # telephone and I'll send a copy. I'd like your help smoothing up the feed on the Whitworth, so I'll call when I get your # and see when it's convenient for you. Bob

Bobc: I doff my foreign service helmet to you, sir!
Thanks.

Jeffe, the fax # you gave me has an answering machine answering. Can you check it and PM me back. Or I can send it in the mail. Bob