Well my 58 caliber Zoli Rem. Zouve Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter with a 26" barrel is on the way..

I have not hunted black powder for 35 or 40 years, and once again like before Im overwhelmed, at least for a while..I know how to load with ball and patch..thats about it, and I have load data for FFG with a 260 gr. ball .015 patch and 160 grs. max for about 2000 FPS..How does this compare to a 400 or 575 gr. bullet at 1400 FPS as to killing power on elk..Some changes seem to be in order such as sights, musket caps?? whatever and I have no clue on that.

I believe this gun to be a 1x72 twist but wouldn't swear to it and the owner had no idea. Anybody know...I can slug the bore but where do I get the proper slug of lead? What about this new smokeless powder etc.

All the loads in my one book use FFG and I recall someone who I respected a lot suggesting the best powder for a 58 was FFFG?? Need those suggested loads..where do I get the best book on operating the big bore 58 and 54? Not much locally so what catalogs do I need?

Starting over is tough, and with my more or less crippled hand not even sure I can handle the recoil of those heavy loads, so how do they compare to our big bore rifles in recoil such as a .458..

I have my old Great Plains Lyman, and have notes on it. so good to go there I think.

I figured AR was the best place to get me started out right..Don't know a local ML shooter around these parts..My best one died way back when and I gave up ML hunting..Now, Im geared up to to back and get some of that rut hunting special seasons for elk..

Muzzleloaders in general, but certainly ones shooting a patched ball use pure soft lead. So to tell what twist your barrel has, take one of those balls and tamp it down onto a tight fitting patch. Then take that little corkscrew attachment to your ramrod, screw it into that lead ball and pull. Counting the number of revolutions for the length of the barrel equals twist rate. Although I don't think spinning a round ball slow, fast, or faster makes a hill of beans relative to accuracy.

No 58 caliber here but I do have a 54 caliber flintlock I use for whitetailed deer here in PA. The slugs I have recovered have flattened out like hitting a brick wall no matter if hit on point of shoulder or through the lungs. None went down immediately but they all bled out profusely and quickly. None ran more than 50 yards. 3Fg is pretty iffy in my 54 Mortimer. Unless you find some trusted load data using 3Fg, I'd stick with 2Fg in that big of a bore.

Re: recoil. Truthfully, when my sights are on a big game animal and squeeze the trigger, I never feel excess recoil. Start with the lightest load and see how your shoulder or hand feel. If OK, dump in some more black powder until you stop feeling comfortable. Every smokeless data manual says to start low and work up. Smokepoles are no different. I cannot comment on the use of smokeless powder since my flintlock would not light off if using it.

If you do not get all your questions answered here, try Castboolits.com. Lots of experience there too.

Most of the new powders need a shotgun primer to ignite.
I use a magspark that holds 209 primers on my Thompson Hawken. It takes the place of the standard nipple.

This site below is a good source for learning about muzzleloaders, powders, loads, bullets, etc.
http://www.namlhunt.com/index.html

You can use this email, namlhunt@gmail.com, to ask Toby any questions you have and he will give you solid answers.

He heavily promotes his sponsors but you can ask about any blackpowder related product

Thanks for the help...I have slugged many double rifle bores so it about the same deal, just didn't know if the 58 cal ball would work for slug..I think with this gun Im going to shoot the 570 gr. Minnie flat nose if I can find them..VAl Forget used 125 grs of FFG with a 610 gr Minnie, so that should be a good load to work up to with the 570..Where does one buy beeswax?

Got my first 58 caliber Zouave in 1968 and been shooting and building muzzle loaders over since; I even have a custom Zouave, and others. I have a fast twist Harpers Ferry Rifle Musket that I shoot sabots out of but that is not germane here.
Round balls are good up to about 60 yards but velocity falls off fast; conicals are vastly more effective, which is why the Army adopted the Minie bullet in the 1840s. I would use a 500 grainer; best compromise of weight and speed, and recoil. Lube them with crisco; no need for anything fancy. Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gun Works has bullets if you don't want to cast them. Use 2FG powder; real black powder. Hot musket caps, and have fun. Clean with the only Army approved black powder solvent; Water. With the shallow rifling of your rifle I would swab after each shot. It's not necessary but makes loading easier with snug fitting bullets.

Ray, I shoot the same rifle my load is lee minie with 90gr Kik 2f black lubed with my copy of SPG lube. If rifle comes with original type nipple best to replace with hot shot type because the Italian ones are crap. Dave Gullo at Buffalo Arms should be able to get what you need and they are in ID. I just wish OR. Fish and game offered bull tags in the rut, oh well cows eat just fine. Good luck, Lynn

When I test a double rifle bore for twist, I just use a tight rod and patch. I put a section of tape on the rod as a flag, when the tape makes a full circle I mark the rod and measure the distance between start and finish..Why wouldn't this work on a muzzle loader to give me the twist..

Also I,m curious as to slugging the bore in a ML with the screw gizzie as suggested? The screw wouldn't allow the ball to turn it seems to me, Would it not be better to just push the all in one end and out the other with the ramrod?????

I starting to get things put together I think? One thing I have noticed is you guys are split about 50/50 on ball or Minnie..One gentleman that has shot over 300 head of game with the 58 tells me the ball kills better if you push it between 1350 and 1400 FPS and that reduces expansion and gives you exit holes, and sudden kills, that makes since to me as the same can apply to any modern caliber more or less! He was a tester for a powder company for most of this life and has a tremendous amount of knowledge with ML rifles...

The other question I have is can I rebarrel my Lyman PG 54 to a 58 caliber, I am wondering it I have enough wood in the forend, and what other obsticles would I have to deal with.

Lynn,
where in the world do you get KIK 2F black, I understand its hard to come by?? It is highly recommended as the best of the black.

I bought it from Coonie's explosives, don't know if they are still around. If you can't find any let me know, may be able to part with a couple pounds. Good luck, Lynn

Ray, just did a search for kik black powder and Midway lists it as available. Good luck, Lynn

thanks..

Graf and Sons has black powder and caps in stock as of today. They have a flat rate shipping of $7.95 and they charge $20.00 for HazMat up to 50 lbs.

I have used Triple 7 with number 11 caps and have had no problem. I prefer black powder to any of the substitutes. It is as easy to clean and usually cheaper per pound.

I see where Buffalo Arms has Oldwesford powder for sale and its supposed to be great powder and it doesn't harden like most powders??Im going to try that, Anyone used it don't see much about it on here.

That's a new one on me. Have to look at it. I have shot a lot of GOEX Olde Eynsford and it is great. It's a couple of dollars more than the GOEX red can and about four dollars more than Graf's home brand but it is still about $5 less than Swiss and I like it just as well.

Made my living with muzzleloaders for many years. Won many many matches. I agree with DPCD all the way. I am currently building a .58 percussion northwest trade gun. Good luck

BigLuke,
Thanks to Dpcd I now have a Italian Hawkin that's like new and its a 58 so I have two 58s and one 54, Im elk and deer ready I suppose.

Ive about got it all worked out, unfortunately not much ML stuff in Southern Idaho..

What I need to do is order some nipples and caps to convert my Italian 58 cal Hawkin, my 58 Zouave, and probably even my 54 Lyman PG to musket nipples and musket caps.

what size nipples and caps do I need to do this, read about all I can find, and all say do this but nobody knows how!! HELP!

Be careful going the musket cap route. Quality musket caps are difficult to find. CCI musket caps are for the reenactor noise makers. They are garbage for anything else. They might fire hot enough to ignite the BP, they might not.

Graf has some SCHUETZEN MUSKET CAPS in stock. I purchased a 1000 cap box of them but haven't gotten a chance to really ring them out. The only thing I use them on is my P53 Enfield. Everything else from .72 down to .44 I use #11s on. Under the new HAZMAT, caps can be shipped with powder.

For nipples I'd look at one of these places:

https://www.buffaloarms.com/mu...uzzleloading-nipples

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/...7pnvlt3nuhkg6l5holf2

There are others but I am most familiar with these.