I have had a interest now for some time to get a bpcr. I was wondering for anyone who uses them if there would be anything I should know and or do before/when I get started? I do cast my own bullets, and am also looking in to swaging.
Any help would be grateful!
I have always loved the Sharps Style rifles. Is that a good starting rifle? I m also looking in to maybe 40-60 to start with. Unless there is a smaller cal I could work with?
I have always been the type not wanting the biggest one on the shelf but practical app. But for some the biggest one is practical. Of cose it will get the job done but dose over kill come in to play. I d love to do BPCR comp. but in Maine there is hardly anyone who dose it out of cowboy action shooting.

James,

BPCR is a great sport; you will enjoy it!

Good rifles include the Shiloh Sharps, Lone Star Rolling Blocks (both semi-custom), Pedersoli Sharps and Rolling Blocks, Browning BPCR (no longer made but still available used periodically), and probably others.

I suggest you get some books and read up on the subject. Google spg lube; they have several. The best in my opinion is "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" by Mike Venturino. The Shiloh forum is a good source of information.

As far as calibers are concerned, the .40-60 is a custom proposition. The beginner is advised to start with a .45-70. If that's too large for you, try a .40-65 or .38-55.

I have always been a fan of all the old military style rifles! Hell I own a M1, M1 Carbine, Endfield SMLE(1971 I m not rich), 1903A3 Springfield, 1941 Tov, a 1853 3band endfield(repro for civil war reenacting) and paying on a Fin-Mosin Nagunt. I right now am having a pre sporter (it wasnt bad but not good job on that stalk chop) at the smith to get modded for my use as a coyote "sniper" rifle. In my opinion there is no dif from a coyote and sniper rifle except chamber.

That in mind, I saw the 1874 Military Rifle and was wicked happy. I looked at 63 but its caplock, but breach loading. The 74 is chambered in 30-40K / 40-65 / 45-70 / 50-70, Shiloh 40-82, 40-50ST. Now if I do end up with this it would be topped with a MVA ADJUSTABLE SCOPE with maybe the Centerless 6 Mil-Dot Reticle or 7 Mil Dot Reticle.

OK So my Guss the 30-40K would be the 3040Kreg? Was that originally a BPCR or was it always smokeless? If its BP I m all over it! Because I already have molds of it. Because I shoot lead from most of my 30cals. *30cal is most abundent is why I have so many, my fav is 6.5mm/.264*

I will be selling at some point soon is a Knock off of H&K 91, and Re-barrel Mauser 98 in 308, reason for mauser sell is re-barrel was done badly! 3 scops and 2 ring sets and it will not hit anything past 50yds if you can hit that....I know I can shoot less then 1moa at 50!! ... ... ...

Dose anyone have any links of BPCR Arms CO.'s? I would love to look around but just do not know of many. I d rather not brake the bank seeing how I m getting custom work done to my 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser.

If you are new to BPCR, call Shiloh and get a 45-70. It is absolutely the most forgiving of all the BPCR cartridges. The following is a post that I have posted a couple of times. It works. The post was for a larger cartridge but the principles still follow. For 45-70, the powder needs to be changed. Every rifle is different so I will give general guidelines for powder. My rifle likes 70gr of Goex Fg with a .30 wad. Extremely accurate but velocity is not up to FFg loadings. If you use FFg begin with maybe 60 to 63g and work up to where you like the accuracy. The amount of compression of the powder is one of the keys to getting your rifle to shoot accurately. More powder - more compression. Buffalo arms can get you everything you need except the powder and they are very helpful.


Here's a post I wrote some time ago for someone shooting 45-110 -

The recipe is as follows:

After sizing your brass, use an expander that expands the neck at .457 - .458 and puts a very slight bell of .461 - .462 on the mouth (can be obtained from www.buffaloarms.com). (I don't know the make of your 45-120 - but find out the diameter of the bore and adjust these measurements)

Prime with a standard winchester rifle primer - Not magnum.

Drop tube 105g Goex Fg. Fg IS the powder for the 45-110. Burns extremely clean. - (You will probably need more for your 45-120)

Use compression die (www.buffaloarms.com) to compress the powder to the level that your bullet and .060 wad will set on top of the powder column. If you compress with your bullet, you will deform it.

Use a creedmore style bullet such as the Lyman 457132 Postell of about 530 - 540 grains cast at 20-1 and lubed with an appropriate Black Powder Cartridge lube such as SPG or DGL. You will have better success if you learn to cast these yourself rather than commercially made.
If your rifle is a Shiloh, bullet size should be .458

Seat the bullet to cover all the grease grooves and deep enough to chamber.

Do Not Crimp. At most, you can remove the bell, but I don't even do this as it is so slight, if you you the expander above, you can't even notice a bell.

The 45-70 is very forgiving in learning how to load for these things. The 45-110 is a true high performance cartridge in the BPCR world (although compared to smokeless, seems slow) and this cartridge does not forgive creative loading practices with good accuracy. However, when loaded correctly for your rifle (varying powder charges, bullet seating etc) this cartridge will be accurate out to 1000 yds.

Use a blow tube for 4-5 breaths between each shot to keep the fouling moist and you will not have to clean between shots. Cleaning between shots will enlarge your groups.

You can shoot smokeless (be very carefull because of the large case) and jacketed bullets but you will find that these rifles were built for Black Powder and will shoot much better with real black powder and soft lead bullets.

The lubes that I mentioned above are not anything like the lubes you've seen on cast pistol bullets. It is soft and designed to keep the powder fouling moist when coupled with your breath from the the blow tube.

Caution - these things are addictive.

Dose anyone know of any good reproductions of Trapdoor rifles?

Ubrti & pedersoli

THANKS! I m going to be looking for them today!

As to rifles and cartridges for a beginner, I would recommend .45-70 in a Pedersoli, Uberti, or Cimmaron, or for a bit more money a C. Sharps. I also understand that Winchester will be producing their highwall silhouette model again this year. Shiloh Sharps' are very nice, but the wait for one is a couple of years unless you pay a premium and order from a dealer such as Bill Goodman.

Were it me starting from scratch, knowing what I know now, I would buy a basic pistol grip sporter 1875 Sharps or 1885 Highwall in .45-70 from C. Sharps in Big Timber, Montana. Also, do not try and go cheap on sights. You generally get what you pay for with sights and the cheap ones are not worth what you pay for them.

You can do gun shows and find good deals , aqlso www.gunbroker.com

I would also suggest a common caliber to start with, like 45-70 or 38-55, maybe 40-65. Couple of reasons:

First, load data is more readily available. That's really an understatement and needs to be harped on a bit. As a beginning BPCR loader, you have a LOT to learn. It is much more helpful to be able to draw from multiple reliable sources for loading help when you have a common cartridge. Some of the more exotic calibers sound and look cool, but few people shoot them in serious competition, so your "help line" is greatly diminished.

Second, your components, brass, and more importantly GOOD QUALITY BP bullet molds, or precast BP bullets are more readily available. If you're just starting out, and you're not already a bullet caster, you can start with precast mail order bullets. That may be the way to go for starters, until you're sure you're gonna like it and get more into it. Once you're up and going all serious-like, you're really going to want to cast your own bullets anyway.

Thirdly, if you DO decide to get out of BPCR, it will be much easier to sell a "common" caliber gun, instead of waiting for the one guy who also wants the same exotic caliber you chose.

Nothing wrong with Pedersolli rifles, they shoot excellent. The prices of rifles between the good imports (Pedersolli), and the US made guns have closed up since the exchange rate of the Euro has changed. The C. Sharps may be the way to go, shop around. If you find a good deal on one, or a Pedersolli, GET IT!

Spend waaayyyy more money on the sights than you originally planned. Then you'll have a real shooter.

38-55, 40-65

These are 2 I have been liking the most due to the fact that they wont kick my ass when I fire and help keep back the flinching. I m not saying I flinch with the 45-70 but it sure dose ring my bell. So to lay back a bit with the bullet size and powder too would help. On top of that I dont like to walk away from the range with a headache.

Tell you the truth I have yet to fire a BPCR. I v fired all these older cartage's with Smokeless Powder but not Black Powder. The issue right now is funding.

I would suggest the .40-65 as a minimum for silhouette. The .38-55 does not reliably knock over the rams at 500 meters.

Another thing to consider that I don't think was mentioned, is the weight of the rifle. Depending on what class you want to shoot in, you are only allowed a certain weight of rifle. The scoped class allows a heavier rifle than the open sighted class.

Open sight class is 12 pounds, 2 ounces. That's with the sights on it.

Scoped class is 15 pounds even. That's including the scope and mounts.

You don't want to do like I did, and find out AFTER you bought it, that it's too heavy for class.

The only sad thing is that the longest range I know of in my home state is 200YDS, not one of them do meters. I enjoyed shooting all different distances when I was in the army but just no room for long distance. I know not of any BPCR shoots in the area either. I have inquired about it but nothing. It would be a pain to drive for hours on end to get to a shoot. I m just happy finding out what loads work best in my favorite guns and shooting them as much as I can.

If you are just going to plink with the rifle get a 45-70. If you have serious competition in mind get one that weighs 12 lbs and has a shotgun butt.

The 38-55 and the 40-65 sometimes require specialty dies and bullets. The 45-70 is about as standard as you can get.

The most fun I have is shooting a BPCR with smokeless. Of course the "real" BPCR guys are hostile to such.

Well here are some dies I found from my favorite online supplier.
Midsouth Shooters Supply
They have 38-40, 38-55, 40-100, 40-65win&sharps, 40-60, 40-70, 45-110, 45-120, 45-60, 45-70, 45-90, 50-90, and 50-70. All in which are standard production.

I started out with a Shilo40/90st 1990 I now have 40/65 45/70 45/90 [12.7x44R=.50/70] 50/110 and several Husqvarna Rem Rolling blocks with Green Mountain barrels , My pedersoli 45/90 is a tack driver with 300gr JHP Rem from Midway using smokless IMR3031 64gr .I have a reloading chart for smokless i you need it ? use my e-mail as I can't attach pictures here .

Forgot 43 Spanish & 50/95 !too many for my dead brain !

When I find a good deal or acquire one I will let you know Thanks!

Which powder grain is sugsted for BPCR? FG, FFG, FFFG, FFFFG?

I use GOEX FFG in everything from .38-55 to .50-90.

I will experiment but mostly likly use mostly FFFG sense I do civil war reenacting and our group gets it in bulk with a discount of a non profit org. so I m paying a few bucks less and its the real deal not that bs from walmart.

I use Hodgdon trip/7 3F for everything !

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
Well here are some dies I found from my favorite online supplier.
Midsouth Shooters Supply
They have 38-40, 38-55, 40-100, 40-65win&sharps, 40-60, 40-70, 45-110, 45-120, 45-60, 45-70, 45-90, 50-90, and 50-70. All in which are standard production.

Just because they are for sale does not mean they will match the chamber of the rifle you buy. There are about 4 versions of the 40-65 that I know of.
1. Original Winchester .406 version
2. The Ron Long .408 version
3. The Browning .408 version
4. And the others such as Pedersoli that use a .40-65 chamber and a .408 bore that are different from Ron Longs and Brownings version. What shape the chamber is I have no idea.

The .38-55 is notorious for having bores larger than the chamber neck will work with.
Many people commonly think a .38-55 will use .375 bullets. Most likely they are .377 to .381 and you never know until you check them.

Thanks for that info! So when I get it I will really have to find out what I m getting, before ordering dies and molds. This maybe some of the most important info I have reseved yet! (please excuse my spelling