What are some of your experiences with modern muzzleloading projectiles on game? Not really after what shoots accurately in your gun here, I am more interested in what type of penetration, expansion, distance the animal ran after being shot, etc. that you guys have experienced.

The last game animal that I shot was a medium sized wild boar. I shot it with a 295 gr copper clad hollow point powerbelt. I used 100 grains of Pyrodex R/S and the shot was about 40 yards. The hog ran about 30 yards and piled up. I shot the hog in the left shoulder at an angle and had the bullet penetrated completely it would have came out behind the right shoulder. I was amazed that there was not an exit wound. Not that it was needed, the hog died very quickly.

I would love to hear some stories about your choice of bullet's performance on larger game such as elk, moose, and bear but I am interested in results on deer sized game too.

Thanks in advance for any replies...8point

I used the 370g maxi on a big doe at 60 yards. She was facing me, the bullet hit her in the chest, and exited her back missing the spine by an inch, the exit hole was a 1/2". She ran for 200 yards before falling. I have not used that bullet since. I have had good luck with the round ball, most deer falling on the spot.

8Point, this will be an interesting post to watch. I decided on the 240 grain Hornady XTP because I had experience with this bullet in my .44 magnum contender. It has performed very well from the contender. However I have not had the opportunity to take any game with this bullet out of my Omega. I will be interested to see how the other available bullets compare performance wise.

At ranges up to 100 yards, I have had as good performance from round balls as from ANY of the stuff that has appeared on the market since about 1970!!

Thanks for the replies guys.

Hawky and Eldeguello...Could you elaborate on the performance of round balls on game? How did they penetrate, expand, etc.? How far have some of your animals run after being hit? Have you lost any animals with the round ball that you feel where hit in the vitals?

Fisher...How about some of the above mentioned details when you shot game with your Contender. I would assume velocities would be lower with the .44 Magnum handgun than a muzzleloader with say 100 Grains of Pyrodex, but how did they perform?? Sounds like the 370 Gr Maxiballs did what they claimed they would do (penetrate well) but did not put the game down very quickly in this instance anyway. Good information.

Anybody else care to share some of their experiences good or bad with their choice of bullet?

Thanks again...8point

[ 02-27-2003, 19:41: Message edited by: 8point ]

8point, I have never lost a deer shot with the round ball. The longest shot was 120 yards through the ribs, taking both lungs with it. The buck was 120 lbs or so, and the ball exited. He ran for 100 yards. I have taken a buck that dressed at 210 lbs and one at 180, both fell to the shot. One at 12 feet the other at 30 yards, both where hit in the neck. Most of the time the ball will not exit, if it hits some solid mass. I think that is why they fall so quick. All the energy of the ball is transfered to the animal. I have taken many other deer with the round ball, most falling to the shot. If you keep your range to less than 100 yards you will do well. My one shot at 120 yards was desperation. We had a hunting partner with us that could not get any more time off, and it was a cold rainy day. We wanted to go back to camp and worm up, and this was the only chance of getting meat.

8Point, I have had good luck with the 240 grain XTP. You are right about the lower velocity. Out of a 12" barrel it is only traveling about 1500 fps. At velocities exceeding 2000 fps I'm not sure how this bullet will perform. Hopefully I will find that out next year.

I believe the longest I had a deer run was 35 yards or so. I would say that I've taken at least 10 deer with this bullet. I'm a strong believer in taking that front shoulder out on the first shot. A good shot will snap the shoulder. The bullet will be fully expanded after hitting bone and then travel into the vitals. In most cases the bullet has exited the other side. Brent is right about the many theories out there. This however is the one I believe in. My shots range from 10 yards to 95 yards so far.

Brent said:

quote:

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8pt. I do not think much can be learned from such a survey unfortunately, though it makes for good bar-talk.

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Well what else have we got to do this time of year????

Thanks for elaborating on your experiences Brent. And thanks to Hawky and Fisher too for the added details.
8point

8point, I have never lost a deer shot with the round ball. My longest shot was at about 80 yards. I have passed up a lot of shots that were not at the right angle. I pretty much insist on shooting a round ball at broadside deer only, since the RB doesn't have a whole lot of penetration, as I will freely admit. This means there were some shots I would have taken, if shooting a modern rifle, or perhaps even a heavy conical lead bullet in the .50. The farthest any deer I've shot has travelled after the shot was about 30 yards, and, as most balls exited (making an entry wound about as big as a tennis ball, with exit hole of about thumb size) all left a tremendous blood trail. But, as Brent has mentioned above, every animal you shoot will behave differrently after the bullet hits, even if the shot hits exactly the same as the last one!!

The ML deer this year was taken with a 50 cal. 295 gr copper clad Powerbelt HP drive with 100 gr of Kleenshot in a Remington 700ML.

Subject was a big doe at 42 yards. She was standing left side to me. Entry was almost perfect ... just behind the shoulder, but just a little high. The doe literally dropped in her tracks ... and did not move again.

Projectile was recovered from the opposite side under the skin. Large mushroom ... al the way back to the base. Target absorbed all of the available energy.

Interestingly enough, the other instant kill this year was with a 41 Mag pistol. That deer was hit at 60 yards and dropped in his tracks as well. The other deer (I tagged 7 this year ... two with a bow) all went some distance, but none over 25 yards. Even the deer hit with the 375 H&H went further than the ML and pistol deer.

I am another roundball shooter--on deer. On Elk, I prefer the previously maligned 370 maxiball. The maxiball is designed for penetration, and does not expand much, if any. I have killed 3 elk with the maxi--none of them reacted to the shot initially--all keeled over dead within 35 yards, including one which was shot a bit forward, and broke both front legs as well as lung damage. I have shot 1 elk with a .54 roundball--it worked, the range was quite short and the shot was a broadside heartshot. My hunting partner shoots his elk only with roundballs, but we stalk up close to these animals. Penetration with a roundball is ideal on a deer, marginal on elk. By the way, I did shoot a buck with a maxi last year--resulted in tracking and two more shots--no more will I do this. But oh, what an elk round. Chuck

8Point

I have only killed two deer with my 700ML, so I have no expert opinion, just two data points.

One was an 8pt buck running broadside at 10 yards. He was in mid-air over a large fallen log, having just been shot at a minute earlier by another guy in the group, when the Hornady 240 XTP hit him just behind left shoulder. He hit the ground on the other side of the log and never got up. Honest. I was using 90 gr of Pyrodex RS. Exit hole in the off side rib cage was about an inch. The bullet managed to miss the bones on the entry side.

Being the incorrigible experimenter that I am, I decided to use the Remington 275gr (.44) Corelokt the next season. I shot a doe at 25 yards. She was facing me at a slight angle and I slipped the bullet in about where the neck and shoulder join. The bullet exited behind the liver on the off side. She ran about 20yds and piled up. She was not as charged up as the buck was, but she was alerted, having discovered me about 15 seconds prior to the shot. She was about to bolt when I hit her.

These were both average central Virginia deer, probably not as large as your transplanted Wisconsin deer in much of Georgia.

Hope this helps,

Tim

I don't know much about muzzle loaders but I have often wondered why you guys don't use some sort of "solid?"

The calibers of most muzzle loaders is quite large, so expansion probably would not be as important as penetration.

Does this argument of using a non expander for deep penetration in a large caliber gun make sense?

I killed a Mule deer buck with my Encore .50 ML last Fall using 120 grians of 777 and a 350 grain QT polimer tipped bullet from Precision Rifle. Hit the deer at 207 yards (laser rangefinder) just a little too far back. Bullet performace was devestating, taking about 1/3 of the deer's liver out the other side. Needless to say the deer didn't take a step. My partner killed his deer using the same load in his Rem 700ML but only a 40 yard shot. His buck was laying down and bullet went through him leaving about a 2" exit hole in his ribcage.

After seeing this performance I don't think I'll shoot another type bullet from my ML.

[ 04-14-2003, 20:32: Message edited by: Toomany Tools ]

I've had good results with .50 and .54 caliber rifles. I have never recovered a bullet from a deer, so have no idea if they expanded or not. However, a .50, and especially .54, caliber hole lets a lot of blood out both sides of a deer, and does not depend on expansion to be effective. Expansion is needed for small caliber rifle bullets,. but not for big 'uns!!

I have used 240 and 300 XTPs in my 50 cal CVA with 110 grains of Pyrodex pellets with great results. They both shoot to about the same point of impact at 50 yards for me. I shot a doe last year at about 10 yards with the 240 and she went about 20 yards. It went through both lungs and the heart. Then I shot the deer that was with her at about 25 yards with the 300 grain and had the same effect. Don't you love it when they stand there and look back!

My other muzzleloader deer was 20 yards with a 240 lead cheap bullet. Same results.

I shoot the 210 XTP out of my .41 mag with the same reaults. Nothing travels very far and I have never recovered a bullet.

I like the 240 XTP but in my .44 rifle they open up a LOT around 1900 fps. If I just had to use a sabot I'd opt for the 300 XTP. JMO

I've used everything from a .44 180gr XTP in the .50
Encore to a 505gr Minnie in a .58 Zouave.

Ya know, it's real nice to place that bullet right
where ya want, and that takes quite a bit of
practice, especially with a smoke pole. The shoulder
tends to turn black & blue with a .58 prior to
getting in a dozen shots, especially with that
brass butt-plate. The 180gr XTP's can be shot quite
a few dozen times before the shoulder begins to
resent it.

The 180 grainers do not exit, even with a lung
shot, but a deer does receive all the energy the
bullet has to offer. In a highly populated area,
these not only work great, but are very safe (as
long as you hit your prey). I've not had any go
beyond 50 yards with the Hornady .44 180gr XTP's,
and dropped one dead in his tracks.

The round I like best is a PR 200gr Dead Center
bullet for deer. If you've done your practicing,
this little offering will get your meat at 50 or
200 yards. Last season, the Encore dropped a
7-pointer in his tracks at 75yds with a 200gr DC
in front of 150gr Clear Shot. It was a heart/lung
shot.

Who really knows why one animal will drop dead in
their tracks and another will run with nearly
identical shot placement? Is one relaxed, not
knowing anything is about to happen, while another
is tensed up sensing the hunter? What about the
one that is already scared shitless, with a large
amount of adrenalin pumping through its system?