I am going to Colorado for muzzleloader elk this fall. I will be using a Remington 700ML in .54 cal. What conical, powder, and charge would you guys recommend. Sabots and pellets are not allowed. Thanks

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Then shoot a big lead bullet like the Hornady Great Plains or the like, and get real close.
Charge? 120 grains is usually optimum, or thereabouts. Not critical. Powder? Nothing wrong with real black powder, but if you must, I use 777; Blackthorne is good.
Pyrodex works but is very corrosive. Still have 3 pounds from when it came out in 1977.
Pellets are for those who can't manage to measure powder.
Cap locks and in lines are for those who don't actually want to hunt with a muzzle loader. I know, they are ingrained now.
And yes, I have used them.

dpcd,

Thanks for the reply, just wanted a starting point. I have hunted with a muzzle loader for whitetail but always used a sabot.

I don't understand these states that don't consider newer technology and better performing powders and bullets. Anyway, I use Blackhorn 209 and it is the most accurate and best velocity I have used. In my .50 cal, do not have a .54

I have been a fan of Maxi-Ball bullets but the Hornaday are good too.

If you go Blackhorn, do not use Muzzleloader 209 primers. Inconsitant ignitions, they are not hot enough. Use a shotgun primer and I have never had a misfire with them. I use Federal brand primers.

Thanks Earl, I appreciate your response.

I have shot 6 bulls with a 50 cal. Hollow base Buffalo bullet. Made a bunch years ago then switched to 52 cal. Sold the 54 cal 30 years ago, old renegade beat my face up.
Good luck quit hunting Colorado 5 years ago something got into the trees in the valley I hunted below the Banded Peaks Ranch and all the trees are dead. 10's of thousands.
After 28 Bulls and numerous cows just enjoy
watching newbe's hunt and get their elk.
Again good luck, good bullet placement and you will get a good bull.
Oh for those that pick stuff apart.
The other elk I shot with various caliber long rifles and even various pistols. Not all with Black powder.

Why don't states let you use more modern inventions? They have gone too far as it is; with in lines, sabots, shotgun primers, etc.
Already gone way past the original intention of a "muzzle loader", most states didn't care as they had too many animals and just wanted to control them.
If you want a true primitive weapons season, you would only allow historic arms.
I know, no one cares now. And yes, I have killed deer with my in line as well, pretty much like shooting them with a 30--06.
Modern Muzzle Loaders are for those who don't really want to hunt with one but just want to take advantage of another season.
I can see the hairs standing up as I type this.

Tom, my hair is standing up.
Honestly, I don't mind a catch-all muzzleloader season, as long as there are a few "primitive" hunts set aside. We have them here in New Mexico. You couldn't give me an inline. Just not interested. Lead projectile, loose powder, percussion cap or flint and iron sights for me.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Why don't states let you use more modern inventions? They have gone too far as it is; with in lines, sabots, shotgun primers, etc.
Already gone way past the original intention of a "muzzle loader", most states didn't care as they had too many animals and just wanted to control them.
If you want a true primitive weapons season, you would only allow historic arms.
I know, no one cares now. And yes, I have killed deer with my in line as well, pretty much like shooting them with a 30--06.
Modern Muzzle Loaders are for those who don't really want to hunt with one but just want to take advantage of another season.
I can see the hairs standing up as I type this.

While I agree that is true for some. Some guys I know will shoot their ML out to 400 yards. That is not the intention of a ML season in my opinion, that is a rifle hunt. Yes I shoot an inline with 209 ignition and a 1.5 to 4 power scope. I wish I could shoot iron sights, just can't, to many surgeries make focusing on the front sight and seeing my target impossible.

I shoot Sabots sometimes and maxi-hunters or maxi-balls some times, depends on what and where I am hunting.

I also agree that rules get stretched to far but I see no reason personally to ban synthetic powders or the use the scopes. If they banned scopes I would not get to hunt at all.

No offense taken here, I agree with some of what you say.

I shot a couple of Elk back in the 80's with a .54 caliber Renegade using 120 grains of FFg and a 400 grain Buffalo Bullets, Minie.

(they may be 420 grain, I'd have to check)

I am in no way saying to ban anything that pertains to shooting or hunting.
I am just saying that those contraptions everyone now uses during muzzle loader seasons are more akin to a cartridge rifle in performance than to a traditional muzzle loader. Yes they do load from the muzzle.
Hell, I have put scopes on cap locks before; and built several in lines on Mauser actions Way before they were popular.

Hmmm and Mauser in line, that sounds interesting.

quote:

in lines are for those who don't actually want to hunt with a muzzle loader. I know, they are ingrained now.
And yes, I have used them.

quote:

Modern Muzzle Loaders are for those who don't really want to hunt with one but just want to take advantage of another season.
I can see the hairs standing up as I type this.

Thanks for that. I fully agree. The seasons were designed so people could hunt with their "primitive" rifles. Not much primitive about an inline scoped rifle.

Idaho is a primitive state, just muzzle loading rifles,no scopes, They stopped all that modern stuff, but the season is set to a ML advantage during the rut or was, not sure these days as I had to give up ML shooting due to lungs..Idaho is picky about new stuff, they put a stop to using 50 BMG rifles and 2000 yard shooting with them...Makes me proud, when a agency tries to protect hunting as compared to just shooting.

When I can no longer shoot a flintlock with either open sights or an aperture sight I will stop hunting. I would not enjoy hunting with a scoped inline any more than I would enjoy bow season with a cam actuated arrow launching device or a cross/cam actuated arrow launching device.

Some of todays modern "muzzle loaders" are no differnt than shooting game with a Single shot rifle in a modern caliber..its a disgrace, and the only reason it exists as their are those who want to get the best hunts with the least effort..Muzzle loading and bow hunts get special treatment and the best arias....Im for muzzle loading and bow hunts but during the regular hunting season for any rifle, other than true primitive hunts, they need some help as more skill is required and game needs to be less wild, particularly elk..All argueable, of course.

Idaho has more restrictions than a lot of states but you can still use an inline. This rifle is legal in Idaho.



Idaho's rule is no scopes, no pellets, and the cap must be exposed to the weather. No Sabots, and the bullet must be made out of lead with no plastic permanently attached to the bullet like a plastic tip. A power belt is legal but I hate them.
While the gun above is legal in Idaho I built that one to use in short range hunts when I am on my boat. The rifles I use for all my Muzzleloader hunting are these.
My Hawken and the paper patched bullet I shoot from it.




My Renegade and the bullet I shoot from it.




Both of the sidelocks will shoot accurately out to 300 yards. Both have taken a pile of game.

I've never shot an Elk with a ML, but on Deer, the 54 caliber is noticeably more devastating than a 45 or 50. I'm sure you're set up well for Elk.

quote:

I have been a fan of Maxi-Ball bullets

Yep. Greased with wonder lube.

I bought my 58 cal bullets from some guy in Salt Lake City who was in business for a time, that ole girl hammered elk big time..ONe thing for sure with a ML the bigger the hole in the barrel, the better it kills, and leaves more blood on the ground, and thats important in the dark timbers wet ground..The 54 and 58 were my elk guns, the 58 was the best killer but the 54 shot noticeably flatter and killed well enough..

Ron, I love that muzzle loader you pictured, really a nice gun..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

Ron, I love that muzzle loader you pictured, really a nice gun..

The two traditional guns is all I use. I actually put a couple of the inlines together for the river hunt. I use a inflatable pontoon. If I drop a rifle in the river I don't want to lose a good rifle.

quote:

The two traditional guns is all I use. I actually put a couple of the inlines together for the river hunt. I use a inflatable pontoon. If I drop a rifle in the river I don't want to lose a good rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Why don't states let you use more modern inventions? They have gone too far as it is; with in lines, sabots, shotgun primers, etc.
Already gone way past the original intention of a "muzzle loader", most states didn't care as they had too many animals and just wanted to control them.
If you want a true primitive weapons season, you would only allow historic arms.
I know, no one cares now. And yes, I have killed deer with my in line as well, pretty much like shooting them with a 30--06.
Modern Muzzle Loaders are for those who don't really want to hunt with one but just want to take advantage of another season.
I can see the hairs standing up as I type this.

In my case, you are spot on. I have a TC new englander .54 and a remington 700 stainless in .54 with a leupold scope. I shoot barnes sabots and pyrodex pellets in the 700 and use a shotgun primer. I use this every muzzleloader season and have not fired the TC since the 80's. Like you, I would much rather use a 30-06.

I used only a primitive weapon to hunt elk and a few deer. got a couple of elk, many were smarter than I, same with a bow, but my elk grounds were/are full of wild hunted elk, and don't come easy, Never got a bow kill on elk. Killed lots of elk with a modern rifle of various calibers from my 25-35 carbine to the 375 best I recall. I ilove the hunt, not so much the kill cuz thats when fun turns to slave labor!

These days a cow in the alfalfa patch with my 06 or 250-3000 out the pickup window (legal at my age) in Idaho, and I earned it without shame.
, I packed my share and more.