Any experience using Goex, Goex Express, KiK,and Swiss as to which is the cleanest, most consistent, and most accurate in flintlocks?

I've been using standard FFg Goex powder for several years and FWIW I didn't notice if it was any cleaner than my previous powder (Elephant powder), but it did burn hotter/faster. The impact was nearly the same, but ignition was superior with Goex.

Over here in South Africa we only get Wano and Swiss. Wano from what I hear is similar to Goex and the swiss is superior to this. Fouling is much lighter and burning rate is about 10% hotter/faster over the chrony.

Sean.

All the currently available black powders (Kik, Goex, Elephant, Wano, etc.) are fairly similar. Swiss is the exception as well as the most expensive. It burns cleaner, and as Sean said, develops more energy. Swiss is the black powder used by almost every serious BPCR and long range competetion shooter. Since Swiss is the best quality BP currently available I would guess it's also the best choice for a flintlock, or any firearm using black powder.

I am leaning toward the Swiss. Should it be selected F for F?

quote:

Originally posted by Tanker:
I am leaning toward the Swiss. Should it be selected F for F?

No. Swiss is a "sporting rifle" powder (whatever that means), but it not the same, granulation for granulation, as as GOEX, for example. If you have a good GOEX load using FFg, if you want to switch to Swiss, use the same charge of Swiss but granulation 1.5F. Using the same granulation for example FFg, of GOEX and Swiss both, seems to reult in higher pressures and velocities with the Swiss-10% to 15% more, in some cases. However, there is no SET RULE for directly converting a charge of some other powder to a charge of some granulation of Swiss. What I did when I started using Swiss FFg in place of GOEX FFg was to cut the starting amount of Swiss by 20% from the GOEX cg=harge (volume measure in both cases). Then I worked up the charge of Swiss to find the most accurate load.

So far, I have only used Swiss for patched round ball loads. I wipe generally wipe between shots when using ANY make of real BP, and Swiss is no exception.

I did test Swiss to see how many shots I could fire before having to wipe the bore between shots. I was using my .73-cal Jaeger rifle, and I found I could fire three shots with a .735" ball and an Ox Yoke .010 greased patch before it became very difficuylt to get the ball down.

However, when I substituted a .715" ball i found I could start the ball with mere thumb pressure, and could have shot all afternoon without wiping! And accuracy of both size balls was about the same, 2" at 50 yards, offhand shooting.

150 grains Swiss FFg MV 1500 FPS w/ .735", 597.5-grain ball.

So I should switch to Swiss 1 1/2 to equal Goex FFG or use Swiss 2 and reduce the load. Seems it would be better to use less powder and go with the Swiss 2. Then I guess I would be better suited for my FFFG guns as well with the same powder. The problem I have is that there are no dealers in my area that I am aware of selling Black so I may have to buy a large lot without being able to test either. I'd hate to be stuck with a load of the wrong type. That .73 Jaeger sounds neat. Who is the builder? Thanks.

Try http://www.powderinc.com/ . Pretty decent prices and you can order as little as 5 lbs. Derned HAZMAT though. If you find you don't like the Swiss - which is unlikely - somebody around you will surely want to give it a try.

I had wanted to try Swiss for a long time and finally took the plunge with an order. I'll be ordering more when that supply gets low (if I still can).

I have some Kik, manufactured by Kamnik distributed by Goex.

Smells good

I have been loading some Goex Exp lately. The stuff is ridiculously fast powder (2fg) and fouling is minimal. I like it much better than the Swiss 1.5fg that I have been using for the last couple of years.

Brent

".73 Jaeger sounds neat. Who is the builder? Thanks."

I built it myself - Long Hammock barrel, cherry stock from Tiger Hunt, other components from Track of the Wolf.....



Muzzle:

That looks great. Although I am heaviest into English styling, I do like the Jaegers. In fact I often have the two styles combined into English full stock carbines. I just got my powder and will go testing soon. Have a .62, two 20s and a 12 bore to test. I talked to LongHammock a few days ago seeking advice on non toxic shot. A dead end.

With both my flinters, Pedresoli Mortimer Rifle and Artax Jaeger Rifle, I only shoot Swiss No.2 BP. Both are cal. 54. Swiss gives the best ignition of all the real BP's I have tried in my two flinters. Wano BP is the other brand we can get easily in Germany, but it ignites and burns noticeably slower than Swiss. Not really ideal for a flinter when doing offhand target shooting.

I have been testing the Swiss and Goex Express in my .62 rifle and 20 ga. smoothbore. I am so far not happy. Groups have not been as consistant as I am used to with the old standard Goex. I wonder if the Swiss and Express require more compression than the standard Goex. I load without a short starter. I also believe that ignition is a bit slower. I am only shooting flint.

quote:

Originally posted by Tanker:
I have been testing the Swiss and Goex Express in my .62 rifle and 20 ga. smoothbore. I am so far not happy. Groups have not been as consistant as I am used to with the old standard Goex. I wonder if the Swiss and Express require more compression than the standard Goex. I load without a short starter. I also believe that ignition is a bit slower. I am only shooting flint.

I'm not sure how Swiss No.2 performs on the larger calibers. On both my .54 flinters, I use 60 grain of Swiss No.2 (3Fg) behind a .531 RB. My patch thickness varies since my Jaeger has quite shallow groves while the ones on the Mortimer are quite deep. Nevertheless, I have quite a tight fit of the patched RB so I do need a mallet and a short starter.

I don't compress my loads. I just push the RB gently on the charge. With Swiss priming powder, both rifles have very fast ignition. Both rifles give MOA accuracy at 50m if shot from a benchrest. I wipe between shots and only count the shots out of a fouled and wiped barrel.

The Jaeger has a 1:59 twist while the Mortimer has a 1:65 twist. However, I found that accuracy is better if the charge is more on the strong side. 60 grain is not entirely what I call a target load but it works.

Which type of Swiss have you been using? Maybe you should try a coarser one for the .62 like Swiss No.3 (2Fg) or No.4 (1 1/2Fg). Usually on the larger calibers 3Fg Swiss tends to be a bit too hot.