I've got a 10 gauge front-loader with a 55 inch barrel, the bore is too small to be a punt gun but despite having a shoulder stock nobody is carrying it around to jump-shoot quail. It was clearly used for market hunting, I got it from Maryland, which suggests the Chesepeake but I'm wondering what the Canucks were using to shoot the ducks their tolling dogs drew in. This thing was clearly used from a fixed position, either boat or blind, but I don't know what slots between a fowling piece and a punt gun. Gotta take it up to Dixie Gun Works to see if they have a nipple that will fir it, it's beat to hell from being dry-fired for a century.

It is neither; it is what it is and used for what you say. No firm definition of fowling piece other than used for fowl, which it was. But usually portable; yours is a long barreled shotgun.
I would not call it a punt gun either although it could have been used from a punt. Those are usually like small cannons.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
It is neither; it is what it is and used for what you say. No firm definition of fowling piece other than used for fowl, which it was. But usually portable; yours is a long barreled shotgun.
I would not call it a punt gun either although it could have been used from a punt. Those are usually like small cannons.

No, I wouldn't call anything smaller than a 2 bore a punt gun, but a fowling piece to me denotes one you can carry in the field and mount and shoot, which is pretty much not an option with a 55 inch barrel. I couldn't remember having heard of any actual nomenclature for anything in between but I thought I'd ask.

When I bought this one a few years ago there was one in 8 gauge with a slightly longer barrel in the same sale but I got the 10 just on the faint possibility I might want to kill a duck with it to mount alongside it, and the 8 wouldn't be legal.

It's a shotgun.

It is that, I just wondered if there was some nomenclature I'd never run across for the slot below punt guns.

The Rod and Gun Club at Aberdeen Proving Grounds had a collection of punt guns when I went to the Chemical School in 1978, damned impressive beasts.

Long Tom.

The 'Club Butt Fowlers' which would include the Marshfield style fowlers and some other Hudson River Valley fowler styles were kind of inbetw the usual size shotgun and the enormous punt guns.

The Club Butt styles generally had very long bbls of at least 50" and large bores.
Made to be carried and shot from the shoulder, the very awkward looking style of the butt stock portion of the stock was made for just that. Being able to held and be shot off-hand, not needing a mount or rest to be shot from. Though I can imagine they were used in that fashion quite a lot as well.

The orig style comes from the Dutch. The others are slightly different styles not unlike the Longrifle took on as different craftsmen worked in different regions.
The Marshfield style of the fowler as it is commonly called was produced mainly around that region of Mass. on the Atlantic shore about half way betw Boston and the Cape.

There are some muzzle loader builder/makers that still make the Club Butt style fowler.
Getting a bbl is often a sticking point due to the OAL and the large bore demanded.
I saw one that John Getz had made for a project. It was 60" long. I don't recall the bore on it.

quote:

Originally posted by 2152hq:
The 'Club Butt Fowlers' which would include the Marshfield style fowlers and some other Hudson River Valley fowler styles were kind of inbetw the usual size shotgun and the enormous punt guns.

The Club Butt styles generally had very long bbls of at least 50" and large bores.
Made to be carried and shot from the shoulder, the very awkward looking style of the butt stock portion of the stock was made for just that. Being able to held and be shot off-hand, not needing a mount or rest to be shot from. Though I can imagine they were used in that fashion quite a lot as well.

The orig style comes from the Dutch. The others are slightly different styles not unlike the Longrifle took on as different craftsmen worked in different regions.
The Marshfield style of the fowler as it is commonly called was produced mainly around that region of Mass. on the Atlantic shore about half way betw Boston and the Cape.

There are some muzzle loader builder/makers that still make the Club Butt style fowler.
Getting a bbl is often a sticking point due to the OAL and the large bore demanded.
I saw one that John Getz had made for a project. It was 60" long. I don't recall the bore on it.

This one has a pretty conventional butt stock, one person could carry it (unlike some of the true punt guns) but mounting and firing it unsupported would be impossible for most and impractical for the rest. My best guess is it was used much like the punt guns but on smaller, broken-up rafts of ducks not worth using the big artillery on.

A two-man team could use it for potholes, with one shooting it while the other lent a shoulder to act as a mount... Could get to ducks a punt couldn't reach, maybe.

Most of the Club Butt types are not as heavy and cumbersome as expected.
The bbls are very thin as they get away from the breech to conserve weight. Even those with a 50+ inch long bbl and 80cal bores can come in around 10lbs in weight.
Certainly no featherweight, but not a crew served weapon either.
They were truly a one man's fowling piece meant to throw large shot loads and use heavy powder charges. They were also a multiuse firearm and were commonly loaded with ball or buck and ball for game or self defense.

Yes there were some extra (extra!) long bbl'd examples made just like any other firearm it seems. A few old pics of a couple gents lugging one around in the swamps seems to have sealed the idea that they were a punt gun and not a common long bbl'd, large cal smooth bore that was a commoners tool in many areas.
The style came about from European ideas and designs brought here just like those for the longrifle. Then evolved from there for different needs and likes.

Many modern representations of these CB Fowlers are in fact way to heavy. The bbl being the main culprit.
Even being too short to be historicly accurate in many instances, the bbl is usualy too thick in wall thickness and many are too small in bore bore size. Stocks often stylize the CBFowler look but never really catch up to the very light weight that the stocks were trimmed to in the lower forend and forward.
This all result is a heavy fowler that many peg their idea of the originals on.

The orig or a repro built to the orig style is easily handled off hand by a normal person. I'm 5'9, 175 and could easily shoot mine off hand ( 50" bbl in 80 bore).
I didnt use anywhere near the heavy loads they likely used for game, but handling, holding, firing the gun was not a problem.

Now my fowler is an orig English 14ga percussion made about 1840. Light little thing weighs about 6lbs!

4-bores were the largest shoulder-held sporting weapons. 2s and up were used on a punt.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
4-bores were the largest shoulder-held sporting weapons. 2s and up were used on a punt.

Were those 4s commonly built with 55 inch barrels?

I bought a double 10 at the same time but it's only got about a 36", and needs welding.

My understanding was that how it was used was the definition of a punt gun, more than a bore size per se- if it was fired from the shoulder, it was some type of fowling piece, if it was fired from a carriage it was a cannon, and if it was placed in a boat, and fired supported by the boat, it was a punt gun.

I remember reading somewhere that the very long barrelled pieces were intended to be used for flock shooting in the water, as the long barrel (remember that these came about before choke boring, generally) was supposed to promote a tighter pattern.

I remember seeing some lithograph of a pair of market gunners sneaking up on a raft of ducks on a pond or hole with one guy supporting the muzzle, and the other firing the thing.

My vague recollection that makes me think the classifications went that anything made to shoot birds primarily was a fowling piece, including punt guns. (The term a gentleman's fowling piece seemed to be meaning a sporting bird gun as opposed to a market gunners weapon, or a less refined utility weapon.)

This piece you describe sounds like a type of market gunner's weapon meant for use on small bodies of water that required approach by foot. Its not a punt gun, but it isn't a sporting arm either. Its a commercial fowling piece.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
My understanding was that how it was used was the definition of a punt gun, more than a bore size per se- if it was fired from the shoulder, it was some type of fowling piece, if it was fired from a carriage it was a cannon, and if it was placed in a boat, and fired supported by the boat, it was a punt gun.

I remember reading somewhere that the very long barrelled pieces were intended to be used for flock shooting in the water, as the long barrel (remember that these came about before choke boring, generally) was supposed to promote a tighter pattern.

I remember seeing some lithograph of a pair of market gunners sneaking up on a raft of ducks on a pond or hole with one guy supporting the muzzle, and the other firing the thing.

My vague recollection that makes me think the classifications went that anything made to shoot birds primarily was a fowling piece, including punt guns. (The term a gentleman's fowling piece seemed to be meaning a sporting bird gun as opposed to a market gunners weapon, or a less refined utility weapon.)

This piece you describe sounds like a type of market gunner's weapon meant for use on small bodies of water that required approach by foot. Its not a punt gun, but it isn't a sporting arm either. Its a commercial fowling piece.

This one and one other in the same auction are the only ones I've ever seen, punt guns are a drug on the market in comparison. Punt guns were something of a collectible as soon as they were outlawed for duck hunting, I suspect these were mostly scrapped, they weren't huntable but were less impressive hanging on a wall than a punt gun. I'm going to assume it was used by two hunters for "potholing" where they couldn't row a punt to. One person could fire it but mounting and firing like a regular shotgun wouldn't be an option. I'll take it to Dixie Gun Works and see if they've got a nipple for it, probably uses a musket nipple. Then I'll either sell it or go hunting and get my nephew to call me a duck in to mount on a wall with it. Laid over a rail in a blind I'd have to wait for one to come in at a favorable angle. Have to find a few handfuls on non-toxic shot for it.

Marshfield-style club-butt fowler, 11-bore Colerain barrel, Jim Chambers lock, cherry stock, built by Mike Brooks of New Liberty, Iowa.

https://hosting.photobucket.co...lsizeoutput_4ac.jpeg

It occurs to me that this might just be the biggest gun in America you could legally shoot a duck to hang on the wall with it. Nearly everything with a 55 inch barrel was made in 4 bore or bigger, lots of punt guns in that barrel length, but nothing bigger than a 10 is legal for migratory birds.

I saw some sketches in a now forgotten book on hunting. They showed the hunter shooting from tall grass blind at ducks in a pothole in a marsh. The gun had the barrel run through a piece of rope, hanging from a tree branch over his blind. I remembered it because I'd never seen or heard of such a thing. It had a shoulder stock, but depicted a very long barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I saw some sketches in a now forgotten book on hunting. They showed the hunter shooting from tall grass blind at ducks in a pothole in a marsh. The gun had the barrel run through a piece of rope, hanging from a tree branch over his blind. I remembered it because I'd never seen or heard of such a thing. It had a shoulder stock, but depicted a very long barrel.

Could have been this gun, I just can't see anybody using it with the muzzle waving around in the air but with some sort of support up front it would be more flexible than any punt gun.

Enormous numbers of dead ducks!!