I just read a blog about these smokeless muzzle loaders could grenade on you and that is why they were discontinued.Does anyone know if there is any truth to this or just BS??Thanks,OB
The reason I ask is that I was considering buying one.

Lots of drama behind that story.

Best I can tell,dude got fired and thus made it his mission to 'destroy' Savage over it.

http://randywakeman.com/HowToBlowUpASavage10ML.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Lots of drama behind that story.

Best I can tell,dude got fired and thus made it his mission to 'destroy' Savage over it.

http://randywakeman.com/HowToBlowUpASavage10ML.htm

Thanks ,it sounded kind of bogus to me when I read his blog.

I'm convinced that that was nothing but a set-up hatchet job. However there are some things about smokeless muzzleloading that can mess you up. The main one is that a double charge of smokeless isn't as obvious as a double charge of black.

Oh, sure someone with their wits about them isn't going to make that mistake but some still do. With blackpowder and its substitutes odds are your barrel and fingers will live through the experience if you didn't notice that your ram-rod hardly made it halfway down the barrel. With smokeless don't bet the booger hooks on noticing or surviving unscathed.

The black-powder seasons have long since lost their direction from a few avid enthusiasts that lobbied for a season, to those that wouldn't have even seen a muzzleloader if it didn't come with a hunting opportunity. The smokeless is marketed to the rule-stretchers (I'm one of those now)who are more interested in the season than the guns themselves. I think the story writes itself from there. There are going to be human error caused wrecks.


I've got a couple Savage muzzleloaders and use them for no other reason than an earlier season in nicer weather with less competition. We've shot whitetail, muledeer, and moose and black-bear with them. The draw moose tag could have been filled with a rifle but muzzleloader muledeer and whitetail were on at the same time and this allowed my 13 year old daughter to hunt all three at the same time. One shot through the ribs and the little bull wandered over about 50 yards in the stubble and fell over and died.

Bear, as near as I can tell die about the same as when cracked with a .300. We don't have a separate muzzleloader season for bear, but the ML whitetail ran at the same time and they both like the same bait pile.

From what I have read, it was a disgruntled ex-employee who deliberately destroyed the rifle, then crowed about it.
As far as modern in-line muzzle loaders, they should all be banned.
Flintlocks only. Maybe a side hammer caplock, maybe.
What happened is that the states got overrun with deer and they stopped caring about "primitive weapons seasons" and just wanted the pests killed off. Shooting with an inline is just like shooting them with a 30-06; yes, I have one and have built many on Mauser actions. In fact, just finished one on a Winchester P14 enfield. Sacrilege.

Separate seasons for different weapons don't really make a lot of sense. Muzzleloader seasons were started because a small group saw it as a way to get something for themselves, i.e. reduced competition while doing what they wanted to do in the first place. Its not that pure of a motive when you think about it.

Using a muzzleloader instead of a center-fire doesn't make one a better person. Nor does using a somewhat more traditional muzzle-loader, or a bow or fishing with flies instead of worms. Its just doing what you want to do, and some fast talking to get a season set aside for you. Win/win. Why not a lever action season, or an STW season or for those that want to push the difficulty angle a walk around barefoot season?

Most of the resentment for in-lines isn't because its offensive to some buck-skinner its just resentment that the "modern" guy is there at all. The hope and wish is that if inlines were banned all the new guys would go home and stay home. If it were just the weapons, why should someone care what someone else uses?

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
Separate seasons for different weapons don't really make a lot of sense. Muzzleloader seasons were started because a small group saw it as a way to get something for themselves, i.e. reduced competition while doing what they wanted to do in the first place. Its not that pure of a motive when you think about it.




Using a muzzleloader instead of a center-fire doesn't make one a better person. Nor does using a somewhat more traditional muzzle-loader, or a bow or fishing with flies instead of worms. Its just doing what you want to do, and some fast talking to get a season set aside for you. Win/win. Why not a lever action season, or an STW season or for those that want to push the difficulty angle a walk around barefoot season?

Most of the resentment for in-lines isn't because its offensive to some buck-skinner its just resentment that the "modern" guy is there at all. The hope and wish is that if inlines were banned all the new guys would go home and stay home. If it were just the weapons, why should someone care what someone else uses?

The big argument has always been the new Muzzleloaders are not "Traditional"!!!News Flash !If anybody in 1750 had been offered a bolt action repeating rifle they would have immediately seen the advantage of using one.No one would have refused it because of being Non Traditional.For years I used a Traditional muzzle loader during the regular Deer Gun season in Wisconsin.I shot quite a few deer with them.No one was ever denied the right to use one.Now they have a season for them and are not feeling so "Special"anymore!!Ha

They have different seasons for bows don't they? Why?
Point is that, with traditional MLs, it is harder; much like with a bow. With in lines, it is very easy, much like using a 30-06. So, as with primitive weapons like flintlock rifles and bows, there should be a separate season. For inlines; no. And I use them all.
But I know no one else cares; the old ways are forgotten but I keep bringing it up just to piss off the in line shooters.

I don't agree with separate seasons for bows either.Why should they get all the nice weather?

I hunted with bow until I wrecked my shoulder, hunted with muzzleloaders starting with 45 cal round-ball 30 years ago. My issue isn't with it being harder or easier, just that it is a choice the hunter makes themselves. Are the game departments in the personal fulfillment business? Is there a biological reason that having a bow or muzzleloader season is desireable?

Actually, I don't care what people use; just fodder for expounding due to boredom.

All the guys here, who used to use bows, have now gone to cross bows due to health issues; all you need is a doctor's note that you can't use a bow and the DNR will give you a crossbow license. Fine.
My point is that the original point of "primitive weapons" seasons was to insure that the guys who were limited to 50 yards max range would not be competing with those who can shoot 300 yards. The lines are very blurry now.

The whole thing is that The World changes.Laws change.Nothin you can do about it except piss and moan.If you dislike something don`t do it.People who do not change with the times are doomed to live in the past,which usually was not too great in itself.

Sometimes the old ways and things are/were best. Not all, like not having antibiotics, but the old classic guns; modern stuff does not compare in class.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
The whole thing is that The World changes.Laws change.Nothin you can do about it except piss and moan.If you dislike something don`t do it.People who do not change with the times are doomed to live in the past,which usually was not too great in itself.

And some of us, some of the time revel in doing things the old way. Its quite a paradox; but hunting is full of paradoxs. The era of replica muzzleloading has already lasted longer than the real percussion era, gauged roughly from the length of time a percussion rifle was the standard US service rifle.