I have a 54 cal percussion rifle that I just cap and uncap at the end of the day if I don't get anything. Michigan winters are fairly dry humidity wise.

How long can one leave black powder (goex FFg) and a patched round ball in the barrel without it getting rusty in there?

I may be wrong, but I do not believe that unburned black is corrosive. I believe it is the byproducts of combustion that will make the barrel corrode. I have left black substitute in barrels for quite some time without problem (I know they are different, but they are corrosive as all getout once burned), but it goes without saying that water is the king of corrosion.

I think what I would do is put a piece of black electrician's tape over the muzzle and leave the rifle capped. If the cap fits tightly enough, that should preclude corrosion setting in. I would, however, think about limiting temperature change with the rifle; i.e., you might leave it in the truck instead of taking it inside the house and back out.

Ok sport here is what I have found and no bull waking ! I was 40 years old loaded a 44 navy 1851 with goes 3 F a jealous woman who was off in the top shot at me , Head shot and after she calmed down , I cleaned the gun's barrel and cylinder, Never reloaded the empty cylinder , Kept it as a reminder of the event and at 71 I finally shot the rest and cleaned the whole gun and not one speck of rust was found .

quote:

Originally posted by Concho42:
Ok sport here is what I have found and no bull waking ! I was 40 years old loaded a 44 navy 1851 with goes 3 F a jealous woman who was off in the top shot at me , Head shot and after she calmed down , I cleaned the gun's barrel and cylinder, Never reloaded the empty cylinder , Kept it as a reminder of the event and at 71 I finally shot the rest and cleaned the whole gun and not one speck of rust was found .

Wow, that's impressive. Cool, sounds like I needn't worry about my powder charge that has been in my rifle for about a week.

greased patch, forever. Spit patch, could rust at the contact patch/barrel.

It was a greased patch. Finally fired it on Sunday. No evidence of rust or corrosion at all.

I had a ML uncapped, but with two 50gr Pyrodex pellets and a bullet loaded for 4-5 years. This season, I put a 209 on and it fired fine. Strange.

My particular situation is when I shoot something the first day of the season, then reload. I will leave that charge in until I either shoot it or the season ends. Right or wrong, I will leave it go for a day but after the second day I'll bring it inside and run an oiled mop down the bore a few times. To be honest, when using a blued steel barrel I'd still get spots of rust after doing this if I wasn't careful but for good or for bad it is my method, and doesn't affect accuracy noticeably.

The potassium nitrate in black powder is not hygroscopic until fired, then, if my mind and chemistry is correct, it turns into potassium chlorate, which IS hygroscopic. That's when the trouble begins.

quote:

Originally posted by 9.3 X 75R:
The potassium nitrate in black powder is not hygroscopic until fired, then, if my mind and chemistry is correct, it turns into potassium chlorate, which IS hygroscopic. That's when the trouble begins.

You would need a chlorine source, which there is none in plain black powder.

The basic stoichiometry:

10 KNO3 + 3 S + 8 C → 2 K2CO3 + 3 K2SO4 + 6 CO2 + 5 N2

I would make a bet that the potassium carbonate, when mixed with atmospheric water, would produce some carbonic acid which would accelerate rusting. Also, remaining potassium nitrate residue will cause iron oxide to form in the presence of oxygen and water.

This is a good article on the stoichiometry of black powder.

akalinin, I appreciate your explanation. I understand the prose a lot more than the formula. As you could probably tell from my post, chemistry is definitely not one of my strong points. I will look at that link you gave and hopefully I'll be able to understand it.

hermetically sealed black powder, practically eternal. The main thing is that it does not get wet. The old cannon "lion" in the Kremlin stood charged 271 year, which was found in 1980. Gunpowder keep working.

quote:

Originally posted by 9.3 X 75R:
The potassium nitrate in black powder is not hygroscopic until fired, then, if my mind and chemistry is correct, it turns into potassium chlorate, which IS hygroscopic. That's when the trouble begins.

Your knowledge is flawed because Potassium or Sodium Nitrate (either can be used but Potassium Nitrate is more Hydroscopic)
decomposes into Oxygen and Oxides of Nitrogen, those combine with the Carbon in Charcoal, forming Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Monoxide,
the Sulfur also combines with Oxygen becoming Sulfur Dioxide.

What is left of the Sodium salt after firing is simple sodium/potassium oxide which is very hydroscopic and absorbs water from the air to become the Hydroxide salt of those Alkali metals

Alkali metal hydroxides are highly efficient
absorbers of Carbon Dioxide, which converts them to a Metal "Carbonate" and more gradually over time even more Carbon Dioxide to become Bicarbonate

I've actually used hydroxide to REMOVE rust

"Chlorate" ?ClO3 is the principle ingredient in Pyrodex and when that decomposes (which it can do with great vigor even without any fuel present) decomposes into HOT Monatomic Oxygen that INSTANTLY combines with anything even slightly oxidizeable nearby...

Actually Pyrodex MIGHT actually use the Perchlorate Salt which is actually TWO Chlorate groups tacked onto an Alkali metal (or An Ammonia Ion)

The problem is that the Chlorate salt after decomposing leaves behind simple "Chloride"
and all chlorides are first Hydroscopic and second CORROSIVE.

Pyrodex is more hydroscopic before AND after it is burned

How long can a blackpowder firearm be left loaded?

Indefinatly

as a note I SEAL my percussion cap firearms by shoving a short cut piece of vinyl aquarium tubing onto the nipple and then letting the hammer down on top of it.

This both seals the nipple and since the piece of tubing is longer than the nipple the flat face of the hammer "seals" against the tubing.

I remove it by flicking it off with the tip of a knife blade, I keep several spare "nipple protectors" in the tin of percussion caps I carry.

Allan, you didn't provoke me into anything, really. I admitted right up front "if my mind and chemistry is correct". I didn't even take high school chemistry I despised it so much. What little I know, or obviously do not know very well, came decades later. Had I the slightest inkling that it would behoove me decades later to have a basic knowledge of chemistry I may well have taken it in high school. I do appreciate you taking the time to post what you know about the....transformation(?) of black powder. I learned from you and from what aka posted. You had a good day and so did I!!

By the way, your spelling is off. It's "Indefinitely".....lol

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:


as a note I SEAL my percussion cap firearms by shoving a short cut piece of vinyl aquarium tubing onto the nipple and then letting the hammer down on top of it.

I've got a percussion cap revolver, but like the idea of some kind of waterproof sealing. But the hammer would rest on only one chamber. What advice would you have as a sealer for black powder revolver cylinder.

I place a cap down tight on the nipple and run a fine line of nail polish at cap and nipple junction. works great even in a downpore.

quote:

Originally posted by 9.3 X 75R:
Allan, you didn't provoke me into anything, really. I admitted right up front "if my mind and chemistry is correct". I didn't even take high school chemistry I despised it so much. What little I know, or obviously do not know very well, came decades later. Had I the slightest inkling that it would behoove me decades later to have a basic knowledge of chemistry I may well have taken it in high school. I do appreciate you taking the time to post what you know about the....transformation(?) of black powder. I learned from you and from what aka posted. You had a good day and so did I!!

By the way, your spelling is off. It's "Indefinitely".....lol

The first line of your post is commenting on "boiler plate", In other words my forum "signature"
which is there mainly for my posts in "the crater"

Back in 2000, a friend who owned an old southern plantation house asked me to come out and evaluate a "find" he had made. While renovating part of this 1850's house he discovered two firearms that had been lathed over and plastered into an interior wall. One was a percussion conversion of a Jaeger rifle and the other was a 1850's Colt .36 cal revolver. We figured it was encased in the wall prior to Sherman's March through the area. The revolver was loaded with percussion caps in place. It was pneumatically cleared. There was no corrosion of the cylinders.

200 or more years ago they simply stuck a feather in the touchhole, or nipple.

I do the same when hunting with my flint guns or the persuction one.

The problem isn't all that simple inasmuch as in some places where the weather may be cold and snow or humid and hot, the weather can effect the powder and you will get rust and corrosion, not to mention misfires...

In a perfect internet world there is no problem, under such described surroundings, but in the hunting world there is....

Most of our muzzle loader hunts are late season and in inclimate weather, cold, snow...Every evening after the hunt I pull the ball and dump the powder and pop the cap, clean the gun. Sometimes I just shoot at something, then clean the gun, Load up fresh the next morning and begin again!! Trust me, It will pay off.

I also keep my gun in a buckskin cover and have a leather cap protector while hunting...

These days I seldom hunt with a muzzle loader, but the elk rut is archery and ML in many places and that's a big time plus for success..Idaho is a primitive hunt, no funny muzzle loaders, load from the muzzle and punch them with a stick, no break opens for a cap, no scopes, you have to hunt like yout great great granpaws dad did! I like that.

IMO hunting with one of the new gerneration ML rifles is no different than hunting with a Ruger no. 1, they are tack drivers, shoot great to 200 or so yards, they are weather proof, protected cap, and mostly scoped..go figure, your cheating. That isn't a ML hunt, its a single shot rifle hunt. Idaho got it right.