I am looking to get my first BP rifle this fall and have pretty much decided on an Omega. The question is which caliber. The owner of my gun shop has advised me to go with a .50 because there are more ammo options, however a friend of mine who is a fairly serious hunter thinks the .45 is the way to go because of the new power-belt bullets. What do you experts think?

I WOULD PICK THE 50. OVER THE 45. WYOMING HAS ALL KINDS OF BIG GAME AND 50.CAL DOES THE BEST FOR ALL! YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF WHAT DO YOU WANT TO USE IT FOR DEER MAYBE ELK OR MOOSE ALL AROUND IS THE 50.CAL.

Originally posted by Doublegun:

quote:

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What do you experts think?

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Well, I'm certainly not an expert but I would go with the .50 caliber it you were going to be limited to one muzzleloader.

X

[ 07-11-2003, 19:52: Message edited by: x-caliber ]

Depends on the twist rate of the barrel, and hence the length of the bullet you can shoot. I'd go for the .45 if the twist is 22" or faster. It will kill anything on earth with the proper bullets (475-550 gr). But twist is everything.

.45's may not be legal for big game in some states (Colorado and Michigan come to mind). I may be wrong about this however. Check.

Brent

Since you've decided on the Omega (not the best choice in my humble opinion but at least it does function) I'd have to agree with a previous poster and say that if the twist rate is 1-22" you should go with the .45. The .45 with 3 Pyrodex pellets or equivalent AND the appropriate bullet will kill anything in North America (although you won't be able to hunt with it everywhere).

You will see many counseling the larger calibers, with the majority leaning towards the .50 caliber. Much of this is based on the use of muzzleloaders with roundballs or low BC and SD conicals including the sabots and various projectiles available for them. I have to point out that it makes no sense to discount the .45 when you're loading your .50 with .429 pistol bullets in sabots!

You'll probably be happy with the .50 as well and there are currently more bullet choices for the .50 ML systems.

Interestingly, I think it is now a better option to choose your projectile and THEN pick the best platform from which to launch it.

For those who don't "get" Ross Seyfried, now would be an excellent time for you to read his articles on the .45 caliber muzzleloaders and their performance.

Whatever your choice, good (and safe) shooting!

Brent,

Back at you with an "atta boy". Robert's book is the bees knees.

BTW fellow posters. Brent's gun is the design that beats the in-line for simplicity, sure fire, safety, and compactness. I hope he'll tell us more and perhaps include a couple of pics.

To clarify my point in recommending the .50 caliber...

Brent pointed it out too. The .45 is not legal for some big game animals, i.e. Elk in Colorado. That is the reason that I recommended the .50 if you were limiting yourself to one muzzleloader. I did not mean to imply that the .45 was not capable of killing.

X

Thanks for the advice. I am still trying to figure out exactly what I want and need. I am sure that I will shoot whatever I get from time to time and in preparation for deer season, but I doubt that I shoow what ever I get very much. I would hunt deer once or twice a year and that is about it. I have wanted a Hawken relica since I was a kid hunting deer in Indiana but, given the limited times I will use BP I just thought the Omega made sense and if I end up wanting to sell the gun I figured that the Omega would have better resale. Now let me really open it up: should I consider a traditional BP rifle like the Lyman Plains rifle in .50 or .54?

Hobie - remember you asked for it.

This is the ugliest rifle I've ever owned. Almost the ugliest I've ever seen. Worse, I made it. But it sure fits, and that was the point.

I'll put a picture here, but if anyone gets hurt it's your fault, Hobie. You can see that this is fitted with both Patridge style rear barrel sights and a Lyman R14 tang sight and also has a second, vernier tang that will allow shooting out to 1000 yds plus scope blocks for a Fecker 6x scope. Front sight is a Lyman 17A with a Lee Shaver bubble level, further modified in my drill press "lathe".

It also still lacks a forearm and rust bluing. But, at least, it has killed one deer. Hopefully a moose next.

Brent

[ 07-12-2003, 00:16: Message edited by: Brent ]

Double gun,
If you wanted a Hawken, then get a Lyman GP in .54 and be happy. They are great guns and will do fine with resale. Why get a gun you really don't like? Esp. when it costs at least as much, and probably a lot more.

I started with a TC Hawken - I wish I had bought the Lyman instead. If I had, I'd not have sold my first muzzleloader - but then I switched to a very nice home made flinter that took me two years to build. One that more than makes up for the ugly home made underhammer.

A GP should be right around $319 or so.

Brent

Double gun,
Go for the .50, as said by others, the .45 is not legal for all game in all states. Also, you have a far better choice and a larger variety of bullets and a shorter powder column. I opted for the .45 and I am sorry , it may have speed but I have been unable to get even reasonable groups .

Double Gun,
DOn't know what you decided, but as I said on another post, T/C did not return my 45 cal, instead they sent me a 50. Right out of the box, it shot a 1.2 inch 5 shot group at 50 yards with 100 grains of 777 anf a T/C 250 ballistic tip. The group would have been better, but I pulled the second shot. The other 4 were in one ragged hole that was .55 center to centrer.

With the new power belt bullet driven at center fire velocity's, The .45 is an excellent choice. After one season with one, my .50 is retired

The Omega is an excellent ML if your not into "purest" aspect muzzle loading. I've got one and it handles great, is a joy to carry (not heavy) and is VERY accurate!

The law about not using a .45 is antiquated at best these laws were writen back when conical balls and black powder was your only choice. they used a .32 for SQUIRRELS! Back then the laws made sence, not today. With the bullets and propellents we have today, the .45 will take any game in the USA and humanly too. The laws do still exist though, and if you plan on traveling the country shooting game with a ML you may be better off with a .50

As far as bullet selection is concerned, The .50 having a better bullet selection tha the .45, Who cares! just find a bullet that your rifle likes to shoot and go hunting. No since in making this too complicated, IT'S MUZZLE LOADING

I'd get the Omega .45 (I did) and not look back.

Terry

[ 08-12-2003, 02:45: Message edited by: TC1 ]

...get a 58.... or admit you pee sittin down!!!

<grin like a mule>

or is that like having just been kicked by one?

jeffe

TC1,what do you shoot in your 45 to make it so good?

I shoot the Power Belt 195gr Aero tip bullets with 150gr of Pyrex pellets. Works Great!

You guys want a great muzzleloader and great service from the manufacturer, check out Austin & Halleck. My step-brother bought one of the $249 A&H 320 Bass Pro specials before they ran out. Barrel was bad. Sent it in to the boys in Utah and they sent him a brand new Utah assembled 320. Got it yesterday, shot it this morning: 3 shots covered with a quarter at 100 yards.

Those Utah guns are made to a much higher standard. Makes me wish I had bought one of those problem Bass Pro specials and kept it long enough to exchange it.

Thanks TC1 I have aencore (have had it for 2 yrs) and got them to change it for a 1:28 twist this year and haven't found a load I want to shoot in it yet.
I have tried the pb 195 but didn't go up to 150 grs with it.tried many others up to 250 gr bullets.I got some of the new sst the other day and tried them in my 50 and 45,with the 45 I did get an inch group that was the best group I had ever gotten with the 45.Thats why I was wondering what you shot,are the groups you get using the 150 gr charge less than an inch at 100?If so I still have some of the aero and hollow points I will try.

Tc1 tried the 195 aero tip and the HP yesterday with 100,105,125 T-7,and pyro 100,150 and I was all over the target board.(encore 45 cal)
You didn't say what kind of groups you were getting would you commit on that,I am thinking about a omega 45 but I want groups around an in @100 too w/ a 225 or less bullet weight.

Owensby,
Would your encore happen to be stainless? I had all kinds of trouble with an Omega 45 in stainless and I sent it back to T/C. As I said in another post, they returned a 50 cal and I am now quite happy . The people at Precision Rifle say That There seems to be some problem with 45 cal stainless. I suggest you check with T/C.

Bud, no mine is a blue barrel in 45,I had the 1:20 twist barrel ,sent it back after many hours of trying loads they sent me a 1:28 twist and it hasn't done any better.Maybe I am just trying to get to much accuracy out of it.If I could get anywhere near the accuracy I get from the 50 cal barrel I would be satisified.Here are some pics of what the 50 cal will do and a 45 cal knight.I am thinking the 45 encore should do the same,maybe I am wrong.If anyone is getting groups with a 45 encore like these I sure am interested in what they are shooting,but with 200 gr or less bullets.

Owensby,
Try talking to the people at Precision Rifle Bullets, they seem to be able to help on accuracy issues. Of course they will recommend their bullets. I think the length of the powder column has some affect on the accuracy in a 45 cal. I am not going to have the opportunity to find out as I no longer have one (thankyou T/C). I hope to ba able to challenge yor groups, with a fairly heavy bullet (250grian or more)at a fairly high velocity (>2000fps)as I intend to use this on elk.

Way to go Bud I hope you do get it to shooting good groups with the heavier bullets,I love to see muzzleloaders shooting little tiny holes together.Hope you will include a pic as you progress.
I might sugest the sst's I shot some of them and I think they would shoot a lot better than I got If anyone worked on them.I shot these the other day trying them in my encore 50,when I get time I am going to try them in my ruger 50.These were shot using 100 grs of t-7 and pyro select.
I have some of the pr bullets and I wish I could get them to shoot as good as the barnes and the sst but for some reason I cannot.I still have some in the 195,200,215 and 240 gr.The best groups I got was with the 200 in the 50 cal but was not constant.Next year I plan to try the 357 with the double sabots in my 50 to see what they do.but will have to put them on the back burner for now.