I've found one of these for sale. I love the Hornet, been shooting/reloading for years. My ?? is: Can someone tell me the rate of twist that Brno rifles the .22 Hornet? I'm not interested in a 1 in 16" twist, it is too slow for the longer bullets from Nosler/Hornady. Any help appreciated, TIA. Gray Wolf in NM.

Gray Wolf,

Check your private messages.

Regards,
JB

JB, thanks much, very best, GW

Gray Wolf,

They are neat little rifles. Very reasonable in price. Something a bit different. The rifle is also available in .222 Remington.

Good luck,
JB

I am interested in the rate of twist for it also and on the 222 version. Does anybody know of a cheaper price/source for the scope mount?
thanks,
Patrick

Hunter6557, I believe that the Hornet is a 1 in 16", per conversations with several reliable sources. I would've still bought the gun. But the deal fell out in the floor, according to the dealer, there are no more available from the distributor in the states. Same for the .222 Rem (which is a 1 in 14", standard for the caliber). Shame, they are nice looking little rifles. I'm still looking; maybe one will turn up at a gun show or one of the sales websites. Very best, Graywolf. "Max Velocity is not necessarily the most accurate!"

I know hwere one is right now at a gunsmith's shop for $225. the scope mount is $90 for it unless I can figure a way to make some other scope rings work. I also saw at least 2 of them on gunsamerica.com in 22 hornet and 222. Not a bad little rifle but the mount price sucks.
thought abiout just getting a NEF 22 hornet rifle which would be easy to mount a scope and to get other calibers for it also. The CZ-BRNO does have a rather thin barrel but would make an interesting walking around rifle. Might be better off getting a 17 HMR rifle and/or using one of my 22 magnum rifles. I also thought about shortening the barrel on my Howa .223 bolt rifle and making it more portable and handier.

Hunter6657, if you saw the same ads on "Guns America" that I saw, they are obsolete. There was a .22 Hornet advertised there, I tried to buy it. The dealer did have one in stock but it'd been put on layaway. He was surprised that the ads were still showing on "GA", he'd pulled them sometime ago, according to what he told me. He told me he thought that his distributor still had some of the Brno rifles. Turned out not so! Too bad. If you saw that ad, recall the pic? He told me that they used .22 rimfire rings and were mounting the scopes with both rings on only the long half of the scope. Said it was far cheaper than the high $$ mount you mention, worked well and they'd had no problems/complaints. I do have one of the Savage .17HMR's (patterned on the old Stevens "Favorite"), sweet little rifle. Love it, the only problem is that being a RF, ya can't have the fun of reloading. If reloading's your thing, I'd stick w/the Hornet. I've had great fun reloading it; my first rifle was (still got it) a H&R "Topper". Similar to the NEF that you mention. And having said that, that is the option (get the NEF) I'd take. Very best, Gray Wolf

A couple of points for you if you are considering buying one of these rifles. My brother purchased one and was somewhat disappointed with it. First, we could never seem to get the bore clean. No matter how many patches we ran through it would not come clean. Second, the trigger pull was horrible. Seemed like it broke at about 6 lbs and had a bit of creep. Third the scope mounts would have cost more than the rifle. He got around this by having the scope receiver drilled and tapped to accept a one-piece Weaver style base.
And lastly we were never able to obtain any satisfactory level of accuracy. We tried many different loads that had shot well in my other Hornets. Heavier bullets tumbled, suggesting maybe a 1:14 or 1:16 rate of twist.
In this case it really seemed that we got what we paid for.

Gray Wolf,

I think the BKL unitized rimfire mount might work should you find a rifle. It may look a little odd. Sinclair International carries the mounts, very inexpensive.

Regards,
JB

Thanks, JB. I believe that was the mounting system the dealer in Florida with whom I spoke was using. He had very good things to say about it, including nice balance and good eye relief. He agreed that it did look a bit "different" but what the hell as long as it did the job. Now, FWIW, I'm pursuing a Ruger #3 in .22 Hornet. Hopefully I can pick it up for my "Hornet Collection". Thanks for all your help on this thread, very best, Gray Wolf in NML.

Gray Wolf,

There's a good article by Paul Matthews concerning the No.3 Hornet in the 1990 Gun Digest.

Regards,
JB

JB, thanks for the information. You sure know your stuff, and I appreciate that. Hopefully, I can dig up a copy of that article; it would be well worth reading, for sure. Very best, Gray Wolf in NML.

JB, all; just FWIW. Got the Ruger #3, fine rifle, terrific shooter! Made in 78 per the Ruger website "serial number lookup". Rate of twist of THIS one is 1 in 14". Turns out Ruger barreled most #3's in this twist although some of the earlier #3 Hornets were 1 in 16". Thanks again to JB in particular and others who helped on this thread. Very best to all, Gray Wolf in NM.

Gray Wolf,

You have a nice little rifle. I could not get my Ruger No. 3 in Hornet to shoot well (my tinkering ability is sadly lacking), but I just couldn't find much current information about loading the Hornet when I owned mine (1979). I had a .45-70 and a .30-40 Krag also. Both shot very well.

I think the resurgence in popularity has really helped the round. I consider myself to be snakebit (perhaps "stung" is a better word) when it comes to the Hornet.

Ross Seyfried's recent Rifle/Handloader articles on loading the Hornet are superb. Really wonderful technical information, insight, and loads.

I do wish Ruger would build a 2/3rds size No.1 or No. 3 for the smaller cartridges. Sure could be sweet.

Good shooting,
JB

Thx again, JB. I started reloading the Hornet in 78. Lived in Virginia at the time. I'd bought a H&R "Topper" with .22 Hornet and 20ga shotgun interchangeable barrels. Put a 4x Weaver scope on the Hornet barrel Got a Lee Loader. And some IMR4227 and Sierra 45gr Hornet bullets. Had a hell of a time learning tricks with that Lee Loader, had lots of ruined cases/wasted primers due to the rather loose bullet seating technique of the Lee. But I sure had fun with that little rifle, killed more than a few groundhogs out in the fields behind the old farmhouse I rented. Shots were anywhere from 75-140 yards. I still have that old rifle. And the Lee Loader, although it ain't been out of the box in 15 years.

Like you I like the small/handy rifles, and am very partial to the falling block action. Browning made the best looking one in the Model 1885. I have one, but they rifled the barrel at 1 in 16", never understood that. That rifle is being re-barreled in .222 Rem. I also have a Ruger #1B in .22 Hornet. I had the barrel shortened to 18", which is plenty for the Hornet with a 1 in 14" twist. It is a tack-driver, I can shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards any day of the week with it.

The open sights on this #3 are NOT good at all, IMO. FWIW, I called Ruger about replacements, they were no help. I called Williams, they were! I'm going to replace with Williams and mount a small 1.5-4.5 Bushnell scope on "see-thru" rings on the #3. Thanks again for the tip on the 1990 Gun Digest article. I obtained a copy of the book. Terrific article, I will see if I have the same type of forearm problems with this #3 that he describes in the article.

There are now lots (compared to 1978) of reloading options for the Hornet. More variety of propellants. More and better bullets, particularly from Nosler and Hornady. I probably spend more time reloading/tinkering/shooting my Hornets than any of my other guns. They're a pleasure to shoot, low recoil/noise, and a fine varmint rifle out to about 150 yards.

Again, thanks for your help and guidance in getting me information/tips. Very best to ya, take care. Gray Wolf in NM BTW, love your "Wild Bunch" postscript line!!

Gray Wolf,

Glad to be of help. The Hornet has always intrigued me, I like the "idea" of the small capacity cartridge. My rifle would shoot three shots fairly well, but always seemed to throw one about an inch away from the main group. I always thought it may be the bedding or the barrel band on the No. 3, but the older shooters using the Hornet always said, "Well, that's the Hornet". My stock-fitting skills are non-existent, so I generally stay away from making any alterations. I may have been loading it too hot, case life was very short.

Let me know how it goes with the No. 3 Ruger. Sounds to me like you've already got it whipped.

Regards
JB

[ 08-31-2003, 19:59: Message edited by: JB in SC ]

Well, I will shortly be joining the Hornet club - the rifle will be a BSA 12/15 converted to CF, with a 1:14 twist barrel. My 1st experience with the round, so I need all the help I can get!
I will put on a Weaver 4-16x scope for starters, cantilever base.
For powder, I chose to start with VV N110, and a whole range of bullet weights, up to 55 grs. As this is a single shot, the intention is to seat out the bullet to touch te rifling.
By the way, I've read that small pistol primers are recommended for this cartridge - any experience with this? Just to be on the safe side, the 1st batch was made up with rifle primers...

Hey MartiniBelgian, sounds like a nice rifle, congratulations! In my opinion, the 4x16 scope is a bit much for that rifle/caliber. You're not going to get out beyond 200 yards with any kind of accuracy with the hornet. So the higher magnification is basically wasted. I have a 1.5x4.5 Bushnell on my Ruger #3 and it works great. I've never used the VV propellants but heard nothing but good things regarding them. As for the small pistol primers, again, I've never used them. I've been reloading the Hornet since 1978 and have always used Winchester Small Rifle and Winchester cases (much better than the Remingtons IMO). Also, you may already know that Sellier & Bellot (Czech Company) make a very nice knock off of the Winchester 45gr SP factory load which is pretty cheap, at least here in the states. And the S&B's shoot very well. Your rifle should stabilize the bigger 50/55 grain bullets properly. But they are going to drop significantly at ranges past 100 yards. Of course it goes without saying that they will drop considerably more than the smaller bullets in the 35-45gr weights. The best advice I can offer to you on reloading the Hornet is don't reload for velocity as your objective. I made this mistake. You will see better accuracy with milder loads, in most cases. Depends on bullet and propellant combination and how a particular bullet shoots in your rifle. Not all are the same, believe me. Start towards the bottom end of your reloading tables and work up, testing as you go. It's fun and interesting to learn how each combination shoots! Enjoy your fine new rifle and keep us posted on how things are going for you with it. Best of luck, Gray Wolf
" "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

Gray wolf, Thanks for the tip. I actually got this rifle as my Ruger #1 in .25-06 is not really the thing for 100m shooting, a bit 'overkill' - not to mention I can only manage about 15 shots before the barrel gets seriously hot...
Accuracy is indeed the name of the game. Already tried some S&B 55 gr bullets with a moderate load, did not stabilize though. Maybe I need to up the charge a bit? Still, stopped for the moment with that bullet, and I now have a batch ready with both Sierra 45gr softpoint and 52gr matchking, with a load that should be a bit 'stiffer'. We'll shoot them on friday, and see what happens. And after that, I'll be getting the other 12/15 back from the 'smith, with a blueing job and a snug firing pin - chambered in 32-20. This one has a barrel by Schultz & Larsen in .308, does show promise...

Hello Martinibelgian,
Don't mention it. As for the S&B 55 grains, they may be too long. Are you positive your barrel is 1 in 14" twist? Even so, it is just a fact that some bullets don't do well in some barrels. My Ruger #3 will shoot factory, Sierra, and Hornady bullets fine. However, Noslers just go all over the paper. It just doesn't like them. I do NOT recomment upping the propellant charge to try and get those S&B 55 grain bullets to stabilize. I doubt that will work. I think you'll do much better with the both the Sierra bullets. Let us know how that turns out, good luck and good shooting. Very best, Gray Wolf
*****************************************
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

Yes, that's what I measured. These S&B's are boat-tail spitzers though. Ah well, will see tomorrow how the others will perform. Hoping for oneholers! :-))

How to tell the twist of a rifle.
Put a snug fitting patch on the jag and insert the rod in bore. Make a mark
@ 12 o’clock on the rod at the muzzle. Pull rod out slowly until the mark is
@ 12 o’clock and measure the distance
from the mark to the muzzle. The resulting measurement is the twist of your
rifling, ie.
1 turn in ____”.
There could be some slippage between
patch and rifling, but this is close enough for government work.

That is a good method of measuring, Madison. I find that a slightly used bore brush will give a better measure as it will turn steady with the twist of the lands. I'm thinkin' that if he's "key-holing" those 55 grain S&B boat-tail spitzers that he may have a 1 in 16". I had the exact same experience w/my Browning Model 1885 which is 1 in 16"; it would not stabilize the longer bullets. My Rugers (#1 and #3) both Hornets have 1 in 14" and they will stabilize the longer bullets fine. Very best, Gray Wolf

Hey guys, I have 1 of these on Guns America for sale. with the BKL mount on it. It is the plain version. From the paper work I have seen they are 14" twist barrels same as the .222. I the father land they sell/sold this in 5.6x57r with a 9' twist. These are swell little guns much handier than the N.E.F. More like the good old savage 219.

I have a Deluxe 1 that will shot RWS into 1" at 100yds. and the 35gr Horn into the same.

Ed Ott

Brno rifles the .22 Hornet?
I have been .22 Hornet savy since the 70's. Most of the older Hornets were in 1 in 16 twist. The pre-WW-II models were 223 diamert.
We are un-grading computers so I can not get to my Speer 13 Manual, which should tell what the BRNO twist is. My Ruger 77/22-Hornet is 1 in 14.

Howdy Madison, yep Brno chambers their ZBK110 (I hope I got that model # close to right) in .22 Hornet. I understand that it is in fact a 1 in 14" twist. I wanted one; but the dealer who had one for sale on G-A told me he couldn't get any more of them from the importer. Then I found the Ruger #3 and took a chance on it; Ruger rifled the #3 in both 1 in 14" and 1 in 16", the earlier years were the slower rate of twist. Mine was made in '78 and is a 1 in 14". What kind of loads are you feeding your fine Ruger 77 and what does it like best? Very best, Gray Wolf

Hey Gray Wolf,

If you are still interested in 1 I have 1 of these that I would be willing to deal on. It is on Guns America but that could be nego. price. It is N.I.B. with a BKL mount.

Thanks,
Ed

Hello Ed,
I've emailed you privately regarding this gun. Thanks much. Gray Wolf

Guys,
For whatever this is worth i bought one of those Bruno's and crowrifle has discribed my a littel of my frustration with that gun.

Do not buy this rifle no matter how enticing it might seem or how much of a deal a seller has to offer. You will be one more pissed off individual when you finally come to the conclusion that nothing will clean the barrel, it will shoot nothing accurately no matter what you feed it, you can't get any parts of technical support. For all of you that are hard headed like i am do not buy this rifle.
Save your money and buy a real gun that you will be satisfied - Browning, Remington, Savage, CZ, anytning but that damn rifle.

1st results of the Martini .22 Hornet: The Sierra 45gr SX bullets work quite well, I had 2 groups under MOA with it. On the other hand, the 52gr BTHP are yawing badly, not giving any accuracy at all - I can barely keep 'em on paper. I will recheck the twist on the rifle, but I used the tight patch method and got a reading of 1 in 14" - which surprises me as the 52 gr stuff should stabilize then. I was using quite a mild load though - 8.1 grs of VV N110 for the 52gr BTHP. The 45grs were loaded with 8.5 and 8.7 grs respectively.
In all, sounds promising: as soon as I do some neckturning, and get the Forster Ultra bullet seater in action, that should improve stuff a bit more...

Martinibegian: the powder of choice is Lil Gun. You will get nice low pressures for your Martini action (so it will still open) and nice high velocities for the target. You will also get quite wide velocity variations but they don't seem to matter much in terms of grouping but apparently can be reduced with crimping. And use pistol primers. Locally, Sierra 40gn hollow points are most popular.

Ah well, don't forget we cannot get the vast selection of powders you have available - and US powders are only about available for 3 months a year.... So I prefer to work with a powder which I know I can always get . Having a good load is nice, knowing you won't be able to duplicate it for 9 months is really bad!

MartiniBelgian, did you have any better luck with the Sierra 52gr BTHP's? I understand what you've said about powder and would stay with what you can obtain there. Regarding the earlier post about using small pistol primers. I'd like to hear more on this. In the current edition of Nosler's manual, George Weber, a Hodgdon Ballistician says: "Many owners of .22 Hornet rifles have experimented with various types of small pistol primers with varying success. However, the small rifle primer will deliver, on average, better accuracy.". I've always used WSR's. Comments solicited. Gray Wolf

No - 52 gr BTHP with 8.1 grs of VV N110 also tumbled, no luck there... Problem is load information - different data sources for this powder give widely different max loads, so it could well be that the load I tried was quite a bit too low for the purpose - I don't know. Will try a higher load and see what gives.
The sierra 45 gr SP stuff is quite nice though.
Today, I tried the H&N 45 gr Hi-speed bullet: this is a swaged, plated bullet with a special coating. Quite a bit cheaper than jacketed stuff, it is supposed to hold up to decent velicities - actually to max loads in the .22 hornet. 1 st try with 8.6 grs of VV N110 and this bullet yielded a 5-shot group of 0.8", center to center. Looks promising - seems I can be cheap and accurate at the same time! Well, with a bit of load development, this looks very good indeed.
Of course, I also used for the 1st time my Forster Ultra seater - that could also have something to do with it... I size with a Lee collet die, and use the Ultra seater - pity they don't sell those in a single die set...

martinibelgian:

I'd like to hear some details on your 12/15 Hornet.

Did you use the original barrel? Also, who reworked the firing pin for you? I've been looking for a Martini-experienced gunsmith for Martini International in .22 Hornet.

MarkB,
The barrel is new - a heavyweight cylindrical barrel, not too long (22" I believe). I bought the rifle from a 'smith in the UK specializing in this kind of conversions - the firing pin tip has been offset for a center strike. I also have a 32-20 on a 12/15.
The 12/15 (or 12, 15, 13,....) is better for this purpose than an int'l, by the way - 12/15's have threaded barrels, and more 'room' in the receiver.
I do know of someone in the UK selling 'kit' 12/15's - RF and CF breechblocks and barrels, caliber according to the customer's wish. Of course with the model 13 takedown system...

By the way - in the US, thry Jim Wasmundt (Fossile, OR) for an experienced martini 'smith - he does know the rifle quite well...