I am looking to build something but need a whole bunch of answers!

Greg

What are the questions?
Pete

Yes Greg between this site and perhaps Doublegunshop the rifle section you will get the answers to most if not all your ????????????????. John303.

Okay here it is.

I want to build another varmit gun for my boy who is almost 8 years old. He has a .22 and a 10/22 that I converted over to 17 Mach 2 and he is going to work with it over the next couple of years.

I originally thought about build a 22k Hornet on a Martini action after finding a picture of one that I have posted in the Varmit section. I really thought that this was the way to go and I wanted to have the same engraving as pictured in that post.

However, after a lot of thinking I don't think that I want to have a caliber such as the Hornet which has the history of being such a problamatic cartridge. Last thing I want to do is build a nice rifle and then have to fight with it over the years to get a decent grouping. I know that is part of the fun but I don't need that big of a headache.

The thought about building a rifle on a Ruger #1 action can to be the last few days. I after putting the 22 hornet on the backburner started thinking about some other calibers like the 17 Rem,17 Fireball, 204, or the 221 Fireball. This is where part of the confusion comes in on my end. I don't know and don't think that a Martini Cadet action would handle some of those pressures and not be able to be gunsmithed that way either. The Ruger is acceptable but now after researching some of the engravers, a couple of them told me to stay away from the Ruger because it is a cast receiver and during engraving, chipping might occur.

So, the questions are....

Is the Martini able to handle some of the above calibers? Where is the best place to purchase a Martini action?

Is the Ruger that prone to chipping and should a guy chance it?

What I want is a rifle that I can pass down to my son and have it stay in the family and be something that has some character to it. I want the rifle to be shootable and reliable but not ultra sleek and modern. It doesn't have to be a 500 yard gun or have to have to shoot a 1000 rounds a day. I want him to learn on it, hence a single shot and be able to shoot it for a few years before he moves up to a real dedicated gopher gun. I also want it to have some nice engraving on it like the one I posted in the Varmit section.

Thanks,

Greg

Never worry about a Ruger No 1 action chipping. As far as strength is concerned, there is no equal single shot, in my opinion.

Regarding Martinis, I believe that they are not strong enough for these calibers. And Martinis are not suited for the rimless cartridges you mentioned. The Martini must have a cartidge with a rim. The cadets have been barreled in a cartridge as long as the 32 Winchester Special, but are best suited to cartridges such as the .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .357 Magnum, etc. I have a Large Martini in .307 Winchester. One issue for a boy is that the martini is best suited for long-fingered people. I don't have large hands and straight-grip guns are a bit of a stretch for me.

Good luck.

A Ruger # 1, with (maybe) a custom stock and some engraving in a .223 would be a gun that would always be useful / appreciated. The other + is plenty of ammo & brass for the fore-seeable future. --- John303.

I was thinking of a Ruger in 17 Remington or 17 Fireball. I really like the 17's and want something with low low recoil. My only concern about the "chipping" the engraver talked about during the engraving process.

Take a look at the engraving in the Varmit section. I really like that and it would look great on a Ruger!

Greg

I have a a Martini 12/15 in .22 Hornet which still has the original .22 LR tube. It shoots great even with .224 bullets.
Pete

albert - i have several martinis including one in 222 with a snapps extractor in it. you can use a rimless cartridge but that extractor is a bitch to fit. one of my favorites is a 218 mashburn bee, but i also have a 17 ackley bee. the 17 is a bit fussy on loads. a k hornet eliminates most of the problems with hornet flyers. 17 k hornet is a sweetie. the action is strong enough for what you want. the only thing on the small martini is that it is a small action and a big case just isn't going to fin. finding a good doner action is getting to be a real pain. i believe in your case i'd try to find a redone rifle and start with that. engraving is just a matter of taste, finding a good engraver and the money to pay for it. if you like that picture so much i don't think you'll be happy with engraving a ruger, there just isn't that much metal on the sides to see. martinis aren't hard to work on most any skilled smith can do the work. I would advise to bush the firing pin and turn down the stryker nose. drilling the breechblock for a cleaning rod is also nice.

Butch,

Thanks for the reply. Very informative. I was thinking of the 17 ackley bee as well but would like to go with the 17 Remginton.

I was looking at the drawing and fit it to the ruger, you are right about the lack of real estate. I was thinking of taking the picture and cutting it in half and putting one half on each side?

I will have to do a lot more thinking about it now.

Greg

I have been told that you could get a custom extractor built for a Martini Cadet to accept a rimless cartridge. Can anyone confirm that this is true?

Greg

snapps gunshhop in michigan makes it. my222 is fitted with one and it is a royal bitch to do.

Bob Snapp is your man for the rimless cartridge in a cadet action.

I have 2 of his rifles now, but both are rimmed. A .357 Magnum and a .32-40 Win. both are VERY accurate rifles.

Bob can also tell you all about the calibers the cadet action can safely handle.

I know his personal rifle on a cadet action is a 7-30 Waters.

And he's a left handed shooter!

Now I have the info I need to move forward on this project. It looks like I might get what I want; a Martini in 17!

I never thought about it but maybe a Browning B78 is something I could look into as well. They also made a "Mikoro" version which was smaller than the full size B78.

I also just found someone that has a Martini Cadet in 222 and one in 204!!!!

Greg

albert if you do a search (i can't remember the site) there is site out there with nothing but pictures of martinis people have. i found it about a year ago & now i can't find it for over or money

I found some at martinigallery but I am still looking. This project is looking promising after seeing those 2 in 222 and 204 caliber.

Greg

It will handle 222 in its rimmed version that is for sure and anything of similar pressure. But that isn't really the issue!

What is is the maximum length of case that can "make the bend" on the action block if you are converting from certain 22 Rimfire Martini rifles. If you are concerting from a 310 Cadet Martini then you will have always quite a big groove.

enfieldspares,

These are the questions I have no answers too. I need some competant gunsmith to look at my proposal and see if it is workable.

Greg

Your best bet for an easy [fairly easy!] conversion is the 222 Rimmed. Cases are available from Bertram and it doesn`t take too much extractor work which is the real "bitch-kitty" in these actions. I recently did one for my grandson in 15 Ack Hornet and he loves it! What butchbloc says is GOLD! Bush the firing pin or you`ll regret it! These little actions wer tested to over 80,00 I was told. That doesn1t mean you shoul go there!! They`ll freeze up tighter than a virgin at higher pressures so be careful. You and do a lot with the 222R case. Neck it down to 17--up to 6mm or 25! Scope mounting is a bit of a problem too so work out your plans for mounting in advance. You`ll enjoy the little Cadets. I am just finishing up one in 30-20 [32/20 case necked to .30] and also one in 25/20 for myself. Good luck on the Cadet.
Aloha, Mark

Should have read 17 Ackley Hornet!! I really oughta typo the messages BEFORE posting--Sorry
MP

I did a 204Short rimmed(20max) on my Martini. The rifle was short chambered with a 204Ruger reamer (saves the cost of a custom reamer)and a rim recess was cut to suit 357max brass .I use cheap Lee 204 dies with the bases trimmed to suit. The money you save on the rimless extractor will pay for your dies. 357max brass should be lots cheaper and easier to find than 222R on your side of the pond. The Rem 357max brass is very hard and must be annealed before attempting to neck it down.
Pic of 204Ruger case, 20max, 357max. the 20max has not been fireformed.


It works great on rabbits


And crows


Cheers

Here is a picture of one in 7-30 Waters that Duane Wiebe built. They can be made into a really classy little rifle.

That is nice. Really nice. But now after seeing the above post about new low walls, maybe that is the way to go.

I don't know enought about single shots and this is all getting confusing!

Greg

While you are doing research, don't forget eabco.com. House falling block that is cute! And he does not tight fit barrels so you could have a switch barrel within limits, say the .30/30 rim. Mr. Brown is fascinated with the .219 Don Wasp etc. Enjoy.

Tbolt: I'm interested in the necking down process you used for the 357max cases to 20max - would you like to elaborate please?

re maximum length of cartridge that can be used in the small martini (type 12, etc.): The Australian Shooters Journal had an article about 20 years ago in which the author successfully chambered one of these rifles for the 5.6x50 cartridge.

Build him a Ruger No1 in 223.

Put a good scope on it.

Buy him THOUSANDS of Black Hills 223 rounds.

He will be happy.

Get the de haas books on single shots very good info He says the small martini's limits are rim size/ctg dia not just pressure Why not 222 rimmed or 22 super jet

+1 for the 25/35

Well it has been a while but I found a Martini 310 cadet that has already been converted over to 22k hornet.

I am on my way!

Greg

good luck - k hornet is one of my favorites

I am looking for some nice wood for it now.

If anyone has any comments or leads please feel free to pm me.

Greg

are you looking for blanks or bolt ons? i don't know of any prefitted for martini's, but it is one of the easiest stocks to make

I was hoping for a bolt on but I know a stock guru around here that might be able to help me out.

Greg