To bring this subject onto this web site

I finally got to do some investigation on my neck sizings that would not allow the action to close. There seems to be a sweet spot on headspace length, and it takes more than one firing to exceed this length. The brass length does not seem the be the critical feature. Also, I really need to get on the handle while FL sizing to knock the shoulder back enough. The brass really expands in my chamber, and has about .009 extension in the headspace dimension.

I started on a fresh set of winchester brass, I will see how this holds up compared to the federal brass I gathered from factory loads. Gun did perform better with the limited outing yesterday, very cold.

Perhaps this gun will be gone for a while soon, the better performance reafirmed my confidence to get some more barrels. The 223 I want will probably shoot only factory rounds and the 45/70 wont have the headspace/shoulder issue. I just hope the reciever holds up well. That part will be the cornerstone for 3 guns.

Redding makes a body die that only sizes the shoulder, not the neck. You may want to check one of those out.

Baja, .009 is too much headspace. Since you are going to send the action back for more barrels, anyway, send that barrel back with it and a letter of explanation. You will likely get a replacement barrel.

It is possible that your barrel is just within specs and very slightly undersized (but still within spec) cases are adding to the headspace. If NEF will not replace the barrel, your best route is to start of with a batch of new, neck them up a caliber, and neck them back down until they will just chamber. When you do it this way, the fireforming takes place in the shoulder area where it belongs.

When you fire cartridges with as much effective headspace as you describe, the stretching takes place in the body of the case and you get eventual head separations.

When you do need to FL resize, set your dies to size just to the point that the cases chamber readily. If you are sizing back to original case dimensions, they are just going to stretch that .009 again and you are going to get head separations in very short order.

Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know, but your comment about how hard it is to resize suggests you may be overworking the brass. If such is not the case, you may want to try another case lube. The best I have run into is anhydrous lanolin. Your drugstore should have it. If they give you a blank look, check their shelves for "nipple cream for nursing mothers".

Let me clarify some of my comments and measurements. I have new winchester brass, headspace distance (as defined in the Lee manual) is 1.622". After one shot, it is 1.630". The rounds that will not allow the action to close measure 1.634". Lee lists the HS measurement to be 1.634". I think the flexibility in the action mechanism allows the brass to grow larger than the envelope in the unpressurized condition.

Right now, I am not ready to send the barrel back, because I know what this situation is and how to deal with it, and the brass ejects after I shoot. I dont want to open myself up to unknown issues with a new barrel. I just need to stop buying other things so I can send it in for a 223 and 45/70 with the BC stock and forend.

I know you didnt ask me but this is my 2cents worth.
H&R/NEFs by design...(break action) are alike TC Encores and Contenders when It comes to handloading dynamics. One of the important variables is the barrel to frame gap when the action is in lock up position.
I own and shoot both, my best handloads and longest brass life has come from using the following process.
Measure you B-F gap using feeler gauges. Go with the largest/thickest one that your assembly will close and lock up on. Record the dimension.
With the barrel off of the frame and your F/L sizing die backed way off...size a once fired case. drop the case in the chamber. at first the case should protrude several .0x"s. Adjust die down a quarter of a turn and repeat this until the base of the case sticks out(will usually be a fraction of the rim thickness) = to or slightly less than your B-F gap.
This way you have not only resized the brass to your chamber dimensions but to the whole action/assembly.
There is probably a better way out there to do this but like I said it has worked well for me and my NEFs and TCs.
I would like to take credit for it but I think it was Fred(bullberry) that turned me onto it a ways back.
WLscott,
My father was an "All American" 325th GIR..cant recall the company. ETO, Served from France to Berlin and after WWII with the Groups through most of the SE Asian conflict. I need to get down to see the museums at Bragg!

Dave,

At the suggestion of Leftoverdj, I checked my frame to barrel gap with a feeler gauge instead of Go/No Go gauges. My barrel will lock up tight without any feeler gauge, but when I use .001" it stops locking up. You can't see any light between the frame and barrel when it is locked up and light will normally be seen with just a few thousandths gap (my Security Six has .006" barrel to cylinder gap and light is easily visible in the gap). A gap of .009" is a headspace problem and should be sent back to the factory to remedy by building up the hinge pin socket to set the barrel back farther (as the hinge pin and socket wear, the headspace will increase unless you keep it well lubed to retard/prevent wear).

Neck sized brass should never grow, since it is supposed to be the same as the chamber dimension from the neck/shoulder junction back and including any B/F gap.

What is the difference in length between the "go" gage and the "no-go" gage? For a 243 for instance.

I don't have any "Go/No Go" gauges, so I can't answer that question. I was going to borrow a set from a friend.

According to Leftoverdj, you have to remove the ejector on a Handi before you can use the gauges.

I almost don't want to get into this one, but here goes.....

The datum line or point for measuring the headspace length on bottleneck cases is generally from the case head, to a point about midway up the shoulder angle itself and allows about .010". The only actual way to measure this would be with a gage made specially for the purpose...hence we have go-nogo gages, which do not actually measure anything, but tell us if the chamber length is too short...action won't close on a go gage...or too long....action closes on a nogo gauge. There is no measuring involved, the action closes or not.

Now, not questioning anyones abilities, mechanical or mathmatical, I do wonder just what length is being measured on the fired brass and just what length that measurement is being compared to. To measure the fired brass itself as a gage of headspace length, would require an adaptor that the case shoulder would fit in and allow for a measurement to the case head. Otherwise it is just a bunch of numbers, and if you are measuring to either the neck/shoulder junture or the shoulder/body juncture, there is simply no truely repeatable measurement that can be reliably taken, as these points provide no true stop for a micrometer or a caliper.

Get the gages, or have a smith with gages check the headspace for you. If you are in tolerance then all that is needed is to set up your dies to accomadate the fired brass without moving the shoulder. I would be concerned about long headspace, as this condition allows for little wear of the hingepin/barrel lug.

Pardon me for buttin' in. JP

I am using a stoney point headspace comparator. However, Im using the .375 dia adaptor instead of the .400 as recommended for the 308 family. I adjust my HS measurments using some trig. I asked about the go/nogo gages because measuring unfired cases is not a good baseline to determine a gap in headspace. I think my chamber is about 1.630, which is close to minimum rather than maximum.

Have you tried making a chamber cast using cerro-safe??? this can be had through either Midway or Brownells. Again, not questioning your method, what made you decide to use the 375 adaptor instead of the 400? A chamber cast and your headspace comparator should answer your headspace questions.

I have the .375 adaptor already for my 30-06. Im not going to worry much more about the chamber, I just wanted to have a good guess about what is happening.