The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Single Shot Rifles T/C Encore largest caliber?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| T/C Encore largest caliber? | Login/Join |
One of Us |
What is the largest caliber that can be safely chambered in the T/C Encore rifle platform? I asked JD Jones and he wrote back a simple ".500 Nitro Express," so I'm kinda confused although that sounds about reasonable. Has anyone else heard or seen anything bigger? Thanks "Molotov Cocktails don't leave fingerprints" -Dr. Ski | ||
|
| one of us |
How about a 12 Ga rifled barrel. That is .729. | |||
|
One of Us |
Yea, some idiot had an Encore handgun chambered for 600 Nitro Express. The word "caliber" used to mean bore diameter. By convention, it is now used (regretably in my opinion) to mean a certain cartridge but it isn't used in describing shotgun bore diameter. What makes a cartridge safe to chamber in an Encore is a function of both cartridge diameter and operating pressure. The lower the pressure, the larger in diameter the cartridge can be. The same goes for the T/C Contender. It is generally accepted that the Encore will safely take any of the usual factory cartridges up to the diameter of the 300 H&H Magnum. This case is the basis for a bunch of other cases like the 375 H&H Magnum, 458 Lott, etc. All can be safely chambered in an Encore. Some custom barrel makers will not chamber Weatherby cartridges like the 300 Weatherby Magnum (though J. D. Jones will) since their SAMI operating pressure is considered too high. The 30/378, 378, 416 and 460 Weatherby Mag. cartridges are to large in diameter and operate at too high a pressure to chamber in an Encore. Also, the larger diameter and high pressures of the short magnums means they can't be safely chambered in an Encore. Black powder cartridges like the 470 NE, 500 NE and shotgun cartridges operate at a low enough pressure that they can be safely chambered in an Encore even though they're of fairly large diameter. Contenders can be chambered based on the same principles but for cartridges of smaller diameter and/or lower pressures than chambered in the Encore. | |||
|
| One of Us |
This is one of the best explanations of this I've read. Thanks. Jon Larsson - Hunter - Shooter - Reloader - Mostly in that order...  | |||
|
| one of us |
While you are being so nit picky about the terminology perhaps you can explain all the nuances of the bore diameters and names of the .38-55, .38-40, .44-40, .44 Henry, .44 American, and the .44 Russian and then say it "used to mean" because it never really was all that well standardized. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'm fully aware that any desire of mine for the use of proper terminology is futile. Actually, with the passage of time, by convention what used to be improper terminology is now proper. As far as the .38-55, 38-40, etc., I would call those cartridges and not calibers. There are of course many other examples such as the 300 Weatherby Magnum that actually shoots .308 diameter bullets, the 222 Remington that shoots .224 diameter bullets, etc. They're just names of cartridges with some numbers attached to give some idea of the class to which they belong. | |||
|
One of Us |
T/C has a factory offering in .416 Rigby so I wouldn't say it's operating at too high of a pressure. Of course they also offer the .45/70 if you arejust talking bore diameter but it doesn't come close to the pressures or the recoil of the .416. | |||
|
One of Us |
I have a .416 rigby barrel for the Encore Pro Hunter and am not impressed with it so far. It could be though that it is not broke in yet. I have only fired 50 rounds through it and am planning on taking to the range tomorrow. If at first you don't succeed...RELOAD! | |||
|
| One of Us |
The reason for breaking in a barrel is to smooth out imperfections to make the barrel foul less and easier to clean. I've never thought the breaking in made a barrel more accurate. Take heart; I've had a bunch of Encore barrels and have gotten all of them to shoot very well. For me, reloading is indeed the key. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Actually, barrel break-in is more to get the machining in the throat to match the machining in the barrel but extremely poor accuracy is rarely a break-in problem. I've had a couple Encores that were very fussy about what ammunition you fed them but I've yet to find one that wouldn't shoot once you figured out its diet. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Lol...sorry gents didn't mean to start any discontent. Guess it was my bad for not being more specific. I'm a big bore fan and by my definition of Caliber I was being kind of broad with the statement. I understand about the larger diameter/lower pressure combinations, however I was under the impression that the .500NE was not the upper limit, that it was possible to chamber this firearm in .577NE. Maybe I'm wrong at that and I was wondering if anyone's done this combination. That "idiot" with the 600NE handgun was actually J.D. Jones of SSK Industries. Again my apologies for stirring any crap! "Molotov Cocktails don't leave fingerprints" -Dr. Ski | |||
|
one of us |
I have an SSK Encore barrel in .500 Nitro Express. It has 22" worth of barrel and 3" of muzzle brake. I have yet to shoot it. Workmanship is superb. "Big ears doesn't make you a good listener, but big feet will tell on you." - Mr. Bill Clinton | |||
|
| new member |
I have Encore rifle barrels in .458 Win Mag, .470 Capstick and 500 S&W Mag. The Encore has been chambered for the 600 Nitro with no pressure problems but few T/C gunsmiths want to tackle this one. You can get a barrel chambered for anything based on the .416 Rigby such as the 500 Mbogo or 470 Mbogo. The 505 Gibbs might be game also. How about the 500 Cyrus? It's similar to the 500 Mbogo, the Rigby necked up to .500. Lots of options with the Encore. Maybe even the .550 Mag or Express which is the 460 Weatherby necked up and shortened. This would be great with cast bullets. The options are endless. Big Bore Reloading Service .470 Capstick .458 Win Mag | |||
|
| one of us |
The 460 Weatherby wouldn't be a suitable chambering for an Encore, factory ammo is loaded to 65kpsi, the large .583" case head and that kind of pressure would be too much for the the Encore frame, even short mags at the same pressure and their smaller .555" case head proved to be too much for the custom barrel mfrs that made short mag chambered Encore barrels like Bullberry who quit making them and bought back(recalled/replaced) those they made. http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rif...num%20page%20341.pdf http://www.bullberry.com/message.html | |||
|
| One of Us |
Grumulkin, I am the "some idiot" that has a 600 nitro encore in a 14" barrel handgun. The barrel is made by Van Horn, and I have shot it several different times. The pressure is with in the limits of the encore. I have had no problem with it, but the recoil is horrendous. A very impractical gun but doable and shootible if you hold on really tight.The guy on you tube shooting it did not know what he was doing or even how to hold it properly while shooting it. That is why the gun nearly decapitated him. | |||
|
| one of us |
Largest could be the most kinetic energy or the largest diameter bullet. If you are playing at the extremes you will probably be reloading because there is a trade off between case diameter and pressure. At least to me shooting .600 Nitro Express factory ammo through a rifle that would be considered a economy model would not make sense. | |||
|
| One of Us |
No sweat guys, I was just letting you know what was possible not necessarily what is practical. | |||
|
One of Us |
How much did that 600 NE barrel cost? What do dies cost, and are they used with a 50 BMG press or what? I'm buying a RCBS Big Max press, so it could handle a 600 NE. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system.  | |||
|
| one of us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Tyler, the Van Horn barreled 600 nitro is a one of a kind as far as I know. Not a lot of people want a 600 nitro handgun. I got 2 complete encore handguns and loading dies ,some brass and bullets and loaded ammo all in one trade. I do not know what the barrel alone cost. | |||
|
| one of us |
Tyler, here's some $$$ figures on this 600NE Encore barrel, see the post by Kamikazi about half way down the page if it doesn't go there. http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Numbe...&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1 and more about it... http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Numbe...age=0&fpart=all&vc=1 And before ya ask, the 600NE operates at relatively low pressure, if it didn't it wouldn't work in the Encore with its huge ~.700" case head. http://kwk.us/pressures.html | |||
|
| One of Us |
If you haven't as yet check out www.sskindustries.com for some JD Jones ammo for TC Encores. | |||
|
One of Us |
I may be wrong but I didn’t think pressure was the only limiting factor for what rounds are chambered in the TC Encore. If pressure were the only limiting factor, then the 25-06 Remington would have never been offered as a factory chambering. It was my understanding that the thrust of a given cartridge is the main factor for why some cartridges work and others don’t. I’m no expert on Encores although I own a few, I’m just sharing what I’ve been told.  | |||
|
| one of us |
As has been said more than once in this thread, the determining factors are peak pressure and case head size, actually internal case head area, the higher the pressure, the smaller the case head must be for the Encore action. The 25-06 has a SAAMI MAP of 63kpsi, but the case head is only .470". JD Jones points that out if you read the Encore info on the links given. He limits pressure/size to that of the 300WM, case head is .513", pressure is 64kpsi. http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm
http://www.sskindustries.com/encore.htm | |||
|
| One of Us |
With all that read. I take it that Thompson Center limits thrust for the Encore to around 10k and around 7k for the Contender. Would this be correct? It’s just an observation. I’m not looking for an argument here, just some thought. Because I don’t know if I was doing the math right. | |||
|
| One of Us |
About to read all this info...may be my next gun.  Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
one of us |
I contacted SSK about a 577 Snider for the Encore and their response was that they couldn't do it because they weren't allowed to make anything > .500 due to some federal regulation. Unfortunately I didn't keep the email, so this is from memory. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Single Shot Rifles T/C Encore largest caliber?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia