I just asked this same question on another forum. New 1-S-C 26" 45-70 arrived from Cabela's. Part of a very small run this year using up remaining parts. I am wondering if this wood is Circassion or Black walnut? The box does not say one way or the other, and I thought the "C" stood for the barrel contour. This is NOT from a continuation of the run that Lipsey's did a couple years ago, although the rifle did come through Lipsey's. The checkering patter is standard. All of the four rifles from the first run that I saw on dealers shelves had the most bland yellow pine looking stocks ever! Is there a way to tell if this rifle is Circassion or Black? The figure and color of this wood is pretty decent, so I'm thinking it must be black walnut. I am happy with the wood, so it really doesn't matter. I am just curious. Thanks
Matt [/url[URL=http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/71shooter/media/Selby%20wood/Mauser%20Actions/Ruger%201-S-C%2045-70/IMG_4118_zps268c299a.jpg.html]

Looks like black walnut to me.

As per my comment on the RF.com site,; take my word for it-it is Circassian!

Well, at that quality it doesn't much matter but, FWIW, I am fairly sure it is European walnut. True Circassian walnut is so rare these days that I really doubt Ruger has any or uses any.

What's it taste like?

i believe that it is a type of circassian that is currently grown in california. i've had a stick or 2 and while it is a long ways from true circassian it isn't to bad

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
What's it taste like?

If I were a beaver, I'd tell ya!
Matt

Never saw beaver work on walnut.

What Gatogordo said!

About 18 months ago, I asked a similar question (How can one identify English walnut from American black walnut?) of several custom gunmakers - for a pair of built-to-order rifles. Their collective response was: You can't. Apparently, to do so requires analysis that just isn't routinely available. They also collectively stated that when using excellent quality walnut, it makes little difference.

I was not happy with these responses. I acquired perhaps the last two Serengeti Accra-Bond stock blanks in existence, one walnut, one maple.

Hope this helps.

Looks like Black to me; remember that there are basically two major kinds of walnut; thin shelled and thick, represented by Juglans Nigra which is black and Juglans Regia, which is the thin shelled variety. NOW, depending on where and how it was grown is everything and the common names we use for gun stocks represent those variations. Like English, Circassian, French, etc. Usually, the thin shelled variety has closer grain structure, again, highly depending on climate and soil where it was grown. It can be hard to distinguish between the two species, but usually it is easy. There is also white walnut, or Butternut, but the wood is not usually suitable for stocks. Claro walnut is the California version of black, has it's own name, Juglans Hindsii, and is common in gun stocks, although usually more open grain structure; depending again on how fast and where it grew. It is commonly used as root stock for the "English" graft so good nuts can be grown.
Oh, those yellow pine stocks you saw were definitely "English", or whatever trade name you want to call, California Juglans Regia. I had a Ruger 77 Mag like that once.
I didn't major in Forestry for nothing. Wait; I pretty much did except for impressing the neighbors with what little I remember about Silviculture and Dendrology.

Sometimes it is hard to tell the diff; especially after the wood has been stained, filled, and finished. Here are pics of black vs English, or what ever name you put on it; note that black usually has more open pores and the heart wood is brown. English/French/Circassian, etc, is usually tight grained, small pores, heavy (not always) and the color varies from brown to white, even in heartwood. It also takes on mineral streaks we all love, like in the pic. Claro, which can have some nice colors and grain, is often/usually, soft and brittle. Look at a few thousand blanks and you will begin to see the difference. On finished stocks, sometimes, not so easy. Note the one on top is a grafted piece; English and Claro.
To further complicate matters, Black Walnut was introduced into Europe in the 1600s, so they have plenty of it, so to say, European walnut means nothing. Like Circassian was introduced into North America for the nuts and now we have lots of them in Cal and Oregon on the gunstock market.

Thanks for the primer on walnut!
Matt

You are welcome; what little I know ain't worth much.

Just my 2cents worth I agree with dpcd Thin a Thick shelled walnut trees as far as colour and weight are concerned can be all over the place from blond to quite dark and so on. I do however think that some types of grain "figure" can be had in one and nearly never in the other. For example a nice feathered crotch can be had in thick shelled black walnut and is not so common in the thin shelled??, broken fiddle back is another example, marble is mostly in thin shelled varieties. In grafted blanks the colour / grain differences between the two types can be quite striking. JMHO-FWIW --- John

Thin shell Walnut is harder than the thick.If you can press a finger nail into it ,it is probably Black or Claro.

True; you almost never (really never) see burl or "feather crotch" figure in English walnut. Don't go by hardness as a firm rule; there is soft English out there too but usually, it is harder.

Thanks, dpcd.
Other than knowing that I love to work with Walnut, my knowledge wouldn't fill a thimble compared to yours. I just think Walnut is absolutely a wonderful, beautiful wood.

I still got a few blanks I got from a farmer here in S Oregon that we basically used a rusty D-8 to pull the stumps out of the gtound as they had been cut back in late thirtys and had been underground all that time 1930s-1192--almost 60 yrs. now add the other 22 [1930-2014] and its about 80 yrs old. This stuff is so wild looking and dark you cannot use anything that will darken it and lose the true beauty. I`ll try and take some pictures.
Aloha, Mark

Hard to tell for sure ! I made a piece of furniture of white oak . From a high mineral area which darkened it and cut an stored at least 50 years which darkened it further from oxidizing by Mother Nature .A beautiful Mocha color which no one will believe that it's not been stained !!!
One thing we did learn years back in gunsmithing school -walnut varies greatly -high or low altitude. Nothern or southern. High or low mineral in the soil .Makes for a huge difference in color, density, figure .Don't ruin it by staining ! Get a nice piece and enjoy it !

I have come across three more of these 26" 1-S 45-70's from the same run at both Cabela's here in CO. They were all very blonde and bland in figure, like the previous Lipsey's Circassian run, so I am now quite convinced that I just got lucky to find a dark, nice figured Circassian stocked rifle.
My plan, all along, was to have Turnbull do their retro stock and metal finish. Their red varnish finish would just ruin it for me, so I am just going to have them do the metal (someday).
Matt

It could be circassion in my opinnion, Your first clue is the lack of pores and the wood density, and the color and I am baseing that on the forend more so than the butt stock. Its not a high grade Circassion, It's laid out just OK but good enough for a single shot and its a nice piece of wood, better than most factory stocks. I would have to have it in hand to be sure however..Asking Ruger would be your best option, They will know.

For what its worth

http://www.lipseysguns.com/pos...an-Walnut-Stock.aspx

Ruger Number 1S 45-70 w/ 26" Barrel and Circassian Walnut Stock
www.lipseysguns.com575 × 315Search by image
As a bonus to this limited run, Ruger stocked these rifles with great looking Grade 1 Circassian Walnut. If you've been wanting a Number 1 in 45-70, ...

quote:

Originally posted by raamw:
For what its worth

http://www.lipseysguns.com/pos...an-Walnut-Stock.aspx

Ruger Number 1S 45-70 w/ 26" Barrel and Circassian Walnut Stock
www.lipseysguns.com575 × 315Search by image
As a bonus to this limited run, Ruger stocked these rifles with great looking Grade 1 Circassian Walnut. If you've been wanting a Number 1 in 45-70, ...

The main reason I questioned wether or not my wood is Circassian, is the fact that the stock on my rifle, and seemingly all stocks from the latest run of 1-S-C guns, have standard checkering rather than the deluxe checkering pattern found on the previous run. The web link, referenced above, shows the deluxe pattern of the first run.
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:
About 18 months ago, I asked a similar question (How can one identify English walnut from American black walnut?) of several custom gunmakers - for a pair of built-to-order rifles. Their collective response was: You can't. Apparently, to do so requires analysis that just isn't routinely available. They also collectively stated that when using excellent quality walnut, it makes little difference.

I was not happy with these responses. I acquired perhaps the last two Serengeti Accra-Bond stock blanks in existence, one walnut, one maple.

Hope this helps.

You can tell as soon as you put a checkering tool to it.Black or American Walnut or its California cousin"Claro" is much softer and more porous.English,French,Turkish are thin shelled Walnut and the wood is more dense.

I am confused ?

How can "circassian walnut" be grown in California ?

This makes no sense at all.

The walnut tree Juglans Regia is really the Persian walnut that comes from the old world and is found all over Europe and Asia.

It is genetically diverse and the wood takes on different forms and presentation based on the biome where the trees are grown. It remains the same tree but takes on the name based on the area where it is grown.


So if it is in England it is "English walnut" or if in France it will be "French walnut" or Turkish walnut. Same tree same wood just different appearance based on the area in which it is grown. The soil and climate of the biome where the trees grow give it it's a wood character.

This if different to the Black walnut or Juglans Nigra which is a north American tree.

Now you can grow Juglans Regia in North America but then it cannot be "Circassian" it would take on the name of the area where it is grown.

True "Circassian walnut" hails from the old world Circassis. ie Juglans regia grown in the circassis ie the area between the Black and Caspian sea. The main source was Juglans regia grown in Georgia on the Black sea near the city of POTI.

For many years, from the period between before WWI and WWII no true Circassian walnut found its way out of this area to the west.

Georgia was part of the Soviet union and no wood was exported. So anyone claiming that they were making stocks from "circassian walnut" was claiming falsely that they were doing so.

I do not know if wood export form this area has resumed after the fall of the Soviet union.

I have a new Ruger No1 RSI with a stock advertised by Ruger as having a Circassian stock ? I do not buy it !

So, what's "California English?"

I see that smiley face - a sort of tongue in cheek ?. But anyway it will most likely be the English walnut part of a graft that is / was grafted to a root that thrives in California.
Just take anywhere in the world and add "walnut" or so it seems to me. --- John

Two kinds of walnut, thin shell and thick shell so to speak..thin shell is grown world wide these days. California English is transplanted trees from England..thin shell is named from where it is grown! Claro is a cross breed..I have seen some Black and some Claro that is as hard and stable as thin shell, but its rare indeed.

Thin shell is hard and light, thick is porus and heavy and in hand you should be able to tell the difference 95% of the time and some wood folks can 99% of the time. In hand I "think" I can tell 99% of the time, as can most stock makers.

I use only Turkish or Russian thin shell on my gun stocks and I have a good supply of it. They are basically the same other than Turkey has pretty much demenished their supply and now steal from the Russians as only a imaginary line seperates the two countrys...the Russian trees however are huge and very old, and Russians don't take lightly to Turks and lots of rags are dotting the terrain and blowing in the wind and they all seem to have bullet holes in them..tough life being in the wood biz these days in Turkey..

The only dealer I know that has a business partner ship in a Russian mill is Old World walnut (Bill Dowtin) in Montana and its really good stuff.