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Originally posted by Vol717:
It must be frustrating that no one is sufficiently impressed at how much you wasted on that status symbol.

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Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
The Ruger is a handsome rifle. While it has its problems good looks and reliability aren't. If only 2 or 3,000 had been made we would be falling all over each other trying to acquire one and bragging about what a wonderful rifle it is.

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Originally posted by Vol717:
It must be frustrating that no one is sufficiently impressed at how much you wasted on that status symbol.

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Originally posted by Vol717:
I sold those guns for a 50% profit. Will you ever be able to say that about yours?

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Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
It all depends upon exactly what we mean when we say 'better'. Is it

smoother-working?
more reliable?
more accurate?
better-looking?
safer for the shooter?
less costly?
more ergonomic?
stronger ballistically?
stronger through the wrist?
easier to stock?
more charismatic?
easier to find parts?
more suitable for the new definition of 'Primitive Weapon'?(grin)
more suitable for accuracy competitions?
faster to operate and reload?
more convenient to carry in the field?

These are only a few of the desiderata for a fine custom single shot, and many of the categories rely upon the owner's subjective and very personal preferences. It's fairly obvious that no one action is 'better' than the others in more than a few categories.

And it's also fairly obvious that the Ruger is the clear winner in several of the above areas, along with 4-5 more nice single shot actions including some made in the 19th century and IMO NOT including more than a very few made today.

It would be interesting to see some of us post our own opinions and FACTS about the winner(s) of each of the above categories, and then let the rest of us snipe at the bold and audacious culprits!
Regards, Joe

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From - http://www.martiniandhagngunma...om/technicalinfo.htm

... In fact, all of the internal parts are closely hand fitted and the externals receive a generous amount of hand polishing. And if you've a mind to do some external shaping beyond the norm, the actions can be had in a rougher exterior form to test your own hand filing.

All of the internal parts are held together with precision dowel pins in perfectly reamed holes either concealed and captured by the stock, or by other action parts. Nothing can work or shoot loose. For the most part, these pins can be easily pushed out by hand with a punch.

The action is comprised of 34 total parts. It is powered by five coil springs: mainspring, trigger spring, extractor spring, safety spring and firing pin spring. The mainspring and its assembly are the most singular features of the mechanism.

Riding on the internal shaft of the sear, the mainspring is enclosed in the mainspring housing, and when assembled is under some tension at all times. The sear has three separate functions: the rear is wedge shaped to locate in a V notch in the rear of the tangs, the sear shaft holds and guides the mainspring, and the front of the sear is cutaway to engage the trigger and provide the true sear surface. The mainspring housing slips over the mainspring and sear shaft, has a cylindrical front end fitting in a concave surface in the back of the hammer, and is slotted through the center for the trigger.

The mainspring assembly works very much like a three position toggle switch. As the lever is lowered, the mainspring drops and is partially compressed while the wedge end of the sear pivots downward in the V notch. As the lever is raised, the mainspring is caught by the sear engaging the trigger, and as the lever is fully closed the mainspring is fully compressed. One can feel the resistance as the lever is shut, cocking the action. Because the hammer is pinned to the lever and is joined to the breech block by the link, mainspring tension also holds the lever fully open or closed. There is no need of a catch to lock the lever shut.

The lever throw is a mere 40°, shorter in angle and travel than any other single shot I am familiar with. The Dakota #10 has a full extended operating lever angle of 50°, the Ruger 55° and the original Winchester High Wall a whopping 105°. I have hunted with, or extensively shot both of these others and can say that regardless of the angle, the Hagn simply feels like it has a shorter throw. I'm quite sure this is because of the mainspring tension on the lever. Closing the Dakota, one has to squeeze the lever fully closed. The Ruger has a latch on the #1 and a detent on the #3 that must be physically secured. While the High Wall's lever is held shut by mainspring tension, in all of its long travel, it is only in the last 1/8" that one feels the spring assist.

In contrast, after initial resistance at full cock, the Hagn seems to shut itself; the last bit of travel is noticeably assisted by the mainspring. As one who has hunted almost exclusively with single shots for many years, I can assure you this positive movement into battery position is reassuring when reloading after one has made a shot on a game animal.

The extractor, if not unique, is uncomplicated, positive in function and delivers the great mechanical advantage of the leverage principal of the operating lever. I say if not unique, because the Dakota and Browning 1885 have used this design.

The extractor is centrally mounted in the front extension of the lever and rotates in a semicircular motion in a 5/8" deep slot in the rear of the barrel chamber. As the lever moves forward and down, the extractor moves upward and to the rear, snagging the cartridge rim pushing it out of the chamber. Because of my anachronistic tendencies, I'm a big believer in rimmed cartridges for single shot actions for positive extraction. Fact is, the Hagn actually might work better with rimless cartridges, for both loading and unloading. A rimmed cartridge has the possibility of hanging up on the breech block or barrel breech while a rimless will slide right in or out.

In contrast, with the nine o'clock location and right angle extension of the extractor in the breech of the High Wall or Ruger, much of the levering advantage is lost. These extractors also have more friction of parts moving against other parts. The Hagn extractor doesn't contact anything but the lever and cartridge case.

Looking down at the Hagn action with the block lowered, the extractor is in a fully rearward position. Also shown are the barrel/breech witness mark, the stock mortices in the back of the action, the rotary safety wheel and the author's thumb print.

Again, from the orientation of a single shot rifle hunter, extraction is paramount. A few years back I wounded an antelope with the first shot and the cartridge case stuck in the breech of my beloved Ruger sidelever conversion. Believe me, I was frantically pushing on the lever, getting ready to hammer the lever with my knife and remembering the bore rod back at the truck, while the pronghorn rolled around on the ground with his back broken. Fortunately the case came out and I administered the coupe de grace. I 've always known the sidelever adds charm and uniqueness, but know from experience it detracts from positive extraction.

This advantageous leverage also work when loading. Some single shots, sidelevers and rolling blocks particularly, don't have the leverage to fully seat a minutely oversize case in a tight chamber. I can't imagine this being the same sort of problem with the Hagn.

The hammer is centrally positioned and hidden in the rear of the breech block. It rotates on a pin in the top middle of the lever. The link also rides on this pin. The hammer has a very short throw and strikes the firing pin which is in-line with the center of the bore. Note that the hammer is 90° above its pivot point when fired and that the mainspring housing is directly behind the firing pin. All is in-line at the moment of detonation. This feature also hold tremendous pressure on the firing pin in its hole so there is no possibility of the primer backing, or flowing into the pin hole.

Many early British single shots, such as the Farquharson, have angled firing pins. Other actions have a Z shaped pin that the hammer strikes above or below the bore line, such as the Dakota and the Sharps side hammer. Both types have a reputation for being fragile. Regardless of other considerations, I believe an in-line firing pin offers the most consistent and positive ignition for fine accuracy.

The tip of the Hagn's firing pin is small at .060" in diameter with about .040" protrusion. Although small, it is not fragile because of other factors that negate this concern.

The firing pin sits in a hardened bushing recessed into the face of the breech block which is retained by a cross pin. This bushing protrudes about .005" from the face of the block so the cartridge head seats on the bushing rather than the block. The firing pin has a coil spring over its front end for retraction.

The first movement lowering the lever lowers the link and starts retracting the hammer before the breech block starts to drop. This allows the spring loaded firing pin to disengage the primer before the breech block movement could shear it off. The pin is hardened and tempered to prevent mushrooming from hammer blows and to lessen the possibility of tip breakage. Because the firing pin is short, precisely fit and has such little movement, you can dry fire this action all day without worry of breakage.

The breech block is milled from a solid billet of steel and weighed nearly half a pound on my inaccurate and out of date postal scale. Underneath, a deep recess is milled in the rear for the hammer. The top front face is angled and slightly coved to facilitate final chambering of a cartridge. The block fits the mortise more precisely than any other single shot I've examined. It moves freely up and down with just a few thousandths of play.

The breech block is connected to the lever via the link and link pin. The link pin and hammer pins are concealed and captured in the breech block until the lever is removed. The lock-up of the block is simple, strong and unique. As the lever moves the breech block upward, an angular section on the top of the lever pushes the block up. Just as the breech block stops, the lever cams over to lock the block between its stop and the top of the lever contacting the link pin.

The camming affect and the mainspring tension holding the action shut combine to make an extraordinarily secure lock-up. The massive surface area of the rear breech block rails contacting the mortise gives this action the strength to handle magnum cartridges.

The trigger is quite simple as well. Its shoe is nicely shaped and large enough for a positive feel. A small coil spring holds the trigger tensioned to engage the sear. As mentioned, this engagement is located where the trigger projects through the mainspring housing. The long upper end of the trigger is captured by the safety when it is snapped on.

Measuring the trigger pull with a Lyman digital gauge, it averaged 3 lbs. 4 oz. for ten tests. Being an old hand at trigger jobs for guns, rifle and revolvers, I did notice a bit of creep. Measuring the trigger movement with calipers between the trigger and lever I came up with just .040". Minimal for sure and I consider this an excellent trigger for a hunting rifle.

The trigger has no adjustments, and in my opinion, doesn't need them. With an excellent pull-weight, little creep and virtually no over-travel, I'm very pleased with it just as it is.

The safety is entirely unique. A circular rotary-action wheel protrudes from the top tang, just where it ought to be. When the action is cocked, the thumb rotates it rearward less than a quarter turn to engage. This drops the safety hook over the trigger firmly locking it and blocking the hammer at the same time. Again, my archaic sensibilities would prefer a sliding safety, and that can be had as an option. In truth, if I were building a hunting rifle for myself, I would order the rotating safety because it is virtually impossible to accidentally disengage. It is very positive and very safe. A set trigger is also optionally available, but I haven't seen one. Knowing Martin Hagn, I'm sure it is superb.

Perhaps the most amazing aspect of the Hagn action is that so few parts do so much. All of the moving parts are precisely fit and well polished and the action operates with authority. When the lever snaps home into battery, it is all strength and rigidity as if the mechanism has confidence in itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Vol717:
There are good discussions here about the technical merits of the various actions. A good point was made about the barreling, stocking and other embellishments being about the same in all cases, so I was wondering about the cost of the actions themselves, refined either at the factory or aftermarket. I know that a Ruger can be had any day of the week for less than $1000 as a whole gun. Then there is the refinement necessary to get it to a satisfactory level. I know of only one experience of that process, and it ran about $200 ten years ago. I have a friend who bought a Dakota Model 10 action alone some years ago and built a 9.3X74R on it, so I know that Dakota at least used to sell bare actions. Can someone who knows fill us in on the current costs to acquire the actions discussed here, including the Hagn, Dakota and other?

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Ballard High Wall: MAY be available now but has history of broken firing pins, hard to stock and bad tang angle, ugly finger-punishing lever.

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Originally posted by TEUTONIC:
end of this month i am getting custm made single shot from germany FIRMA ADAMY GEBRUDER,its 7x65R,I have few photos already but not sure how to post

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Here's an example of a 'top hat' on a Winchester wall firing pin repair.

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Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
take a look at www.steveeraleproducts.com before you committ to an action.

He is now building a Fraser, to go along with the Frank Wesson #1 Long Range action(that so closely resembles a Farqy).

Something different in a chambering? 280 DuBiel.

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He is now building a Fraser, to go along with the Frank Wesson #1 Long Range action(that so closely resembles a Farqy).