Well another hunting season comes to an end for us hunters and shooters and AR's. Your meat is in the freezer, the mounts at the taxidermist, the decoys are put up, the blinds dismantled, the guns are cleaned, and the Safari shows are already attended.

Now we can sit back by our fireplace with coffee or wine, or here in Texas with our air conditioner on in the end of January LOL, and think about the next fall season and the next days afield. We start planning in our minds the next big hunts, the next safari, and the next guns and gear.

So throw on in here AR guys, and lets have a rousing discussion on the addition of either the Sharps and the Winchester 1886 for me. We can spend our money (my money LOL) freely here.

What do you like? Why ? Which one first? Do you hunt with any of yours? While I might ultimately take one of them to Africa, it is not my primary rifle. It is just for fun. And IF I ever get a fancy theft proof built in gun display case, one of them would anchor one end of it.

The answer cant be "BOTH", or "Get a Savage", please LOL LOL.

Yes, the Sharps and the 1886 are different styles of rifles. But they both have their place in our hunting and shooting heritage and history.

Neither of the ones I am considering are the absolute original guns, in either the Winchester or the Sharps, as they are both are new productions, although they are excellent top notch modern reproductions and represent the original gun very well.

They are both about the same in terms of purchase price and upgrades.

I like the Winchester because like many of you I have Winchesters, and this adds to that. I went and looked at a booth with the Turnbulls last year with my PH and he aggreed that it could be fun too.

I like the Sharps because it is a Sharps, and Shiloh sure has it right. My preference is for the Creedmore, as I like the pistol grip style stocks. The caliber for me would be in 45-90 so I can shoot the smokeless 45-70's in it, or maybe play a bit with the black powder in the 45-90. I dont really want to spend years trying to get a load for it though.

I also like open sight rifles and shoot them pretty well too as like many of you I grew up with that.

The delivery has improved from Shiloh, with some even on the shelf, and the Turnbull is fairly available in reasonable time too.

So what do you guys like? Options you like? Or just general thoughts on these two outstanding modern rifles that you can use, and still have a good looking and historical based gun as well.

As this is the Single Shot Forum, I might also have to cross post over on the Lever side too. But a lot of you are rifle savvy and learned on many styles. In a lot of ways I think you get knowledge and experience and come back to a gun like this, either one really, but maybe a bit more as to the single shots in general. I know in my younger years you could not have got me to pay for a single shot, so you, or I, may have come full circle to get to here.

If I do neither, then I guess I can always get a Swarovski Z6 for my long range rig for about the same money.

Thanks for your inputs.

The Turnbull 1886 is an absolute stunner ...

Turnbull 1886

Shiloh Sharps 1874 Creedmore

Turnbull's body of work would influence me. He is an iconic part of Americana firearms and if you are seeking provenance and ethos, his way of thinking, and his way of doing, are likely to survive the sternest test

I agree completely with you regarding the Turnbull work Ramsgate.

And IF I was using an original Winchester 1886 then there is no question at all of who would do that work. Only Turnbull.

As I undersand it the re-production rifle that I am am considering that Turnbull sells for approx $3000 is a Browning built base rifle with his work.

On Turnbulls site he states that the parts are fully interchangeable with an original 1886.

The same applies in many ways to the Shiloh Sharps. Every part of that rilfe is made there by Shiloh ( I think ). They have their own foundry. They make the stocks. They make the screws. So the 1874 is as American as the original, or as authentic as it can be. On the Shiloh too they claim that all the parts are interchangeable with an original Sharps.

How lucky are we to be in the second great gun producing period of history? Now if we can just hold on to these freedoms.

It is just an "off season" think about thing that I have considered for a bit, then I did not get back to it.

Thank you for your comments and ideas.

Some of you Shiloh guys throw in here too !

OK, I'll bite. I'd go for the Shiloh in a second, and have twice. I prefer the more sudued case colors and Shilohs standard wood and finish is usually above everyone elses higher grade wood. They are a great investment, with good ammunition extremely accurate, and there is a wide range of after market sights available. As for the wait I think it says something about the desirability of the rifles and te care taken in their manufacture. The family that runs the company also storgely supports the sport, and their cutomers.
Best

Both are nice guns.

I think between the two I would have a 1886 built just like Dougs personal 1886.

I have shot his rifle and it is very nice. I would go with the 45/70 as it provides all the power I need in an 1886 lever rifle

I'm basically a single-shot and bolt-action fan, but I traded for my first 1886 in 1970 and have never been without at least one 1886 ever since then. Ditto Sharps, got my first Borchardt in 1976 and just sold my last Shiloh 1874 last year.

Two caveats here: first, don't get REPEAT DO NOT GET the curved rifle-style or steel carbine-style butt on whichever one you choose, PLEASE specify the shotgun butt if you want to shoot it with anything but pipsqueak loads.

Second, if you choose the Sharps then you'll be well-advised to also purchase spare firing pins and spare lever springs, I suggest 2 of each.

Just a word to the wise from an old codger who's been there and done that...

Oh yeah, one more thing, a strap-on sissy bag helps GREATLY when shooting from the bench!
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Both are nice guns.

I think between the two I would have a 1886 built just like Dougs personal 1886.

I have shot his rifle and it is very nice. I would go with the 45/70 as it provides all the power I need in an 1886 lever rifle

I think I may have read that at one time. Was it a 475 Turnbull? I did read some of his Africa hunts with his 475.

What are your other impressions as mine might not be quite as "done up" as his.


And thanks for your input on the Sharps too 50Cal. How does your shoot? Any particular options ? How about sights or the vernier sights ?

Thanks guys.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
I'm basically a single-shot and bolt-action fan, but I traded for my first 1886 in 1970 and have never been without at least one 1886 ever since then. Ditto Sharps, got my first Borchardt in 1976 and just sold my last Shiloh 1874 last year.

Two caveats here: first, don't get REPEAT DO NOT GET the curved rifle-style or steel carbine-style butt on whichever one you choose, PLEASE specify the shotgun butt if you want to shoot it with anything but pipsqueak loads.

Second, if you choose the Sharps then you'll be well-advised to also purchase spare firing pins and spare lever springs, I suggest 2 of each.

Just a word to the wise from an old codger who's been there and done that...

Oh yeah, one more thing, a strap-on sissy bag helps GREATLY when shooting from the bench!
Regards, Joe

Yea but ..... you have got the original thing there .

And I agree completely about the butt stock. It was certainly one of my questions for either Turnbull or for Shiloh.

They break pins and springs or is it just maintainance, or both?

And how did your Shilohs shoot for you? Was it a long load work up. I have a pretty solid loading set up , but I dont want to spend all my time on just that. The only real black powder I shot was a muzzleloader a little bit, and my cap and ball revolver. So no black powder cartridges or load work for that.

Thank you Joe.

Interestingly the "It is not THE original ... " thing has not come up. Yet anyway.

Some time in 2010 I decided to sell a nice 270 Winchester pre-64 that I had bought to take its action for a custom rifle. When I decided not to use it, and not to chop it up, I offerred it for sale here on AR. The metal had been reblued, but it was very nice and had a nice polish style blue on it. The stock was original and the asking price was not a lot.

You would have thought I was trying to fake out the guys with offering a turd as the queens diamond . It had been re-blued ! Yes, imagine that. A 50 year old plain hunting Winchester. But a nice one. It is not going to be displayed in the Cody Museum, or has not owned by any historically famous guys or Elvis or anything. But it would make somebody a nice pre-64 hunting rifle - or a nice action to start a custom.

It did not really bother me any, but it was interesting, in a way. Only a very few guns are truly top grade and are sought out by the biggest collectors. Most of those are in collections anyway. I had Andys do a couple of Winchesters for me back when he was working and I had guys who wanted them right now.

I dont think Turnbull feels that it subtracts from the old Winchesters value from the ones of his I have seen. But that is a discussion for another day.

So back to the original discussion - not on reblues !

The Sharps FP design is necessarily awkwardly-shaped and therefore subject to bending/breaking. Some are 1-piece and others are 2-piece but all seem to break sooner or later, it's simply a fact of Sharps life if they're shot a lot. I don't know of any way to guarantee Sharps FP longevity, it seems to be a crap-shoot with individual rifles.

Similar situation with the lever springs but in this case a re-heat-treating will certainly help. Heat the spring to a blue heat, about 600-650F, and ensure a slow cooldown. I install a thin leather pad under the spring and also slightly round over the base's edge where the spring bends over, to reduce any tendency for it to crack at this critical spot.

Use pure lead or as close as you can get, cast in a high-quality mold, and lubed with any good BP lube such as Black Magic, SPG or White Lightning. Fill the case FULL of BP using a long drop tube and then compress with a compression die until the bullet can be seated with finger pressure, about .3" or more. Case resizing is actually not necessary most of the time. Many more critical details are available in several BP shooting books including Pat Wolf's book on shooting the trapdoor Springfield.
Regards, Joe

I have one of Doug's 1886 rifles in 50 express (50-110) and it is a great shooter. It is one of the recent production 1886's that Turnbull converted to 50-110--flawless workmanship. I use mostly BP (Goex 2F)lightly compressed and a soft lead bullet.

My last 50-110 was a Ruger No 1 with Badger barrel and it was TOO LIGHT! Recoil was OK with the light 300- and 350-gr bullets but accuracy was null and void until I loaded it up toward max. Similarly with the 450-gr bullets, it would knock my dingaling in the dirt whenever I loaded it up to where it became accurate. With a 50 I like to keep the weight well above 10 lbs and more is usually better. Also, twist is sometimes an issue with the 50s, many makers use a slow twist to match the light 50-110 factory bullets and the slow twist is no good for either accuracy or killing power.

I now use a 45-70 or 450 Alaskan with perfect satisfaction. The 535-gr 457125 Government bullet loaded up to 1600-1750 fps in the 45-70 or 1900-2100 fps in the 450 Alaskan will do anything necessary, for me at least.
Regards, Joe

Well I dont know what to tell you....I have both and love hunting with each of them. And yes my Win was worked over by Doug. Oh and I'd go through Bill Goodman for the Shiloh. You'll have your rifle the way you want it in 3 months. If i had to choose only one, I guess it'd be the Shiloh, simply for nostalgia, because the Sharps was "there" before the big Winchesters were.

I'm shooting the Shiloh 50 1 1/2 and love it. I'm using 5744 because it is very difficult to get black here in Southeast Alaska. I shoot the 50-515 bullet weighing in at 500 grains and it puts moose down with aplomb!! Love it and it is much more accurate than I can shoot. I have a target with 20 rounds at 300 yards than runs around 3 1/2 inches. All it need is minuet-of-moose anyway. Recoil is not bad, but I agree, buy the shotgun butt pad. Jim

Tex, yes it was a 475 Turnbull.

When I stated built just like his, I was refering to the stock dimensions, barrel length etc.

That rifle handled real good and fit me perfect.

TexKD, As JD said get the shotgun butt if you are thinking of a caliber bigger than 45-70, your shoulder will turn every color from dark purple to yellow if you don't. A good quality tang sight and hood front sight are a great addition if you want to punch paper, especially at longer ranges but beware, they aren't cheap. As to accuracy my old 45-120 would shoot ragged one hole groups at 100 yds, but Lord, that thing would hurt until I put a shotgun butt on it. 120 gr of 1F and a 535 gr postel bullet would torque the rifle almost out of your grip, once I learned to control that accuracy really improved. The Shiloh web site is a great place to visit and learn how to shoot these rifles and Mike Venturinos book,"Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" is a must have also. Working up loads can be a challenge but it's half the fun. If you can get it at all use real black powder, it's much more consistant than any substitute or smokeless, good loads will have very low standard deviations if carefully prepared, this is a must with big, heavy slow moving bullets at longer ranges. It's way different from loading modern rounds, similar in many respects to loading black powder express, but again that's half the fun. Clean up is in most cases easier than with smokeless, my 45-70 is ready to put away after three patches and the brass just needs a good dunking in soapy water and a rinse. Most ranges will come to a standstill the first time you light off one of those big black powder rounds and always bring an extra dozen rounds for the other guys to try because they'll want to. If you can, go to a BPCR shoot and ask some questions, you'll probably be invited to try a few shots. Have fun!
Best

Thanks for all the informative commments guys.

Lets talk a few more facts and ideas on the SHarps first, and what you use.

1.) Loads. I like the Sharps, I do. I like the idea of the Sharps anyway .

I have a pretty big loading set up here, and while I realize that BPCR loading is different, I am not so sure how much different.

I have talked to guys before who never seemed to get their load right.

But I was thinking a 45-90 in the Sharps. That way I could back down to 45-70 and shoot that if I have to. Correct?

I have several presses including the Redding Ultra Mag so I have to believe I have it covered there. And all kinds of scales, powder equipment, tumblers etc. I know BP loads on volume, not weight, of course. The only real BP shooter I have now is a Old Army cap and Ball, and I use the Pyrodex. I cerainly would get the Swiss black for the Sharps.

One thing I REALLY DO NOT want to do though is get into casting the lead. With a melt pot, lubri sizers, and all of that. Why?

I got set this time to reload and decided to get the best equipment and accessories I could and "just" load about 4 rifle calibers and 1 pistol. You know how that went right ? Yep, I or even two of us could go a pretty nice hunt with all the stuff I have now. It is not a bad thing.

It is not just the equipment either - although as you know you can get crowded no matter how much space you have.

What is bad is that I just dont have a lot more time. So something has to give. I hope I can buy some good cast boolits for this rifle. Do any of you, or do you all cook them yourself. I have to believe a 45-90 would also shoot the heavy jacketed bullets like the 405's too, correct?

I did get one of the books "Loading Black Powder Cartridges" or something like that coming, but not the Venturino book you refer to 50Cal. But I will get it too.

Do you all load them at the loading bench or shop , and shoot them, or some field loading?


2.) Sights. What are you guys all using for sights. Surely I would like to get the Sharps out to 200, 300 etc. Do most of you have the barrel sights, or the tang sights? Or both? Are they vernier types sights? What do you recommend on that?



3.) Caliber. I was thinking 45-90 as I said. That way I can retreat to the 45-70 that I already have if I need to go to smoleless. I dont know if they make it but the old 50 -110 or 50-120 sounds great, maybe that is what you have Jim. But those are even harder to load for right? So I will stick with the 45 I think.

While I am not recoil shy per se, I have shot a 378 Weatherby and the recoil of it was ferocious. Much worse than my 416 Rem Mag. These Shilohs are heavier, but if any are apporaching the 378 Weatherby, then please give me some light loads. The darn thing did not look too bad for Matthew Quigley though LOL!

Thanks again for all the inputs.

quote:

Originally posted by degoins:
Well I dont know what to tell you....I have both and love hunting with each of them. And yes my Win was worked over by Doug. Oh and I'd go through Bill Goodman for the Shiloh. You'll have your rifle the way you want it in 3 months. If i had to choose only one, I guess it'd be the Shiloh, simply for nostalgia, because the Sharps was "there" before the big Winchesters were.

So the answer is "Get Both " afterall .

Which of those did you get first BTW? Is your Winchester one of the new-er Chiappas, or Brownings, or a USRA gun, or an older Win 1886.

I have looked for some older rifles, and I have seen a few that could be re-bored, new wood etc, but generally the early 1900's ones I see are either pretty beat up for $2500 and in calibers like 40-65 or in excellent shape for $15,000. I have looked off and on fairly consistently for a USRA Winchester, but none of the octagon barrel and long magazines came up for me.

While I am sure they are both great, would you offer a nod as to either being a more "quality" rifle than the other?

Bill Goodman is the Shiloh-Ballard in Bozeman, correct? Just roughly, what do you think his premium added to the rifle is? In dollars or in per cent either way. But I will call him too when I get sorted.

Congrats on those guns in your safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Brainard:
I'm shooting the Shiloh 50 1 1/2 and love it. I'm using 5744 because it is very difficult to get black here in Southeast Alaska. I shoot the 50-515 bullet weighing in at 500 grains and it puts moose down with aplomb!! Love it and it is much more accurate than I can shoot. I have a target with 20 rounds at 300 yards than runs around 3 1/2 inches. All it need is minuet-of-moose anyway. Recoil is not bad, but I agree, buy the shotgun butt pad. Jim

Good shooting Jim. As I put above, would you comment on your sights for either the hunting, or for the long shots?

While working in Alaska when I was younger I drove from Anchorage and proceeded to hike up to the glacier. Just me by myself and no one looking for me for a few days or so.

Somewhere way up the hill and way off the beaten path, this was years ago BTW, the thick brush started exploding and all kind of grunts and loud snorts were coming my way. I figured I was in tip shape but I was not going to out run a bear. Or fight him off. But I had heard they dotn run as fast downhill, yea right. So I was looking at those big trees and how high to get to a limb. Shortly a cow moose came out in a real bad mood. Must have had calves or something. Even though I was glad of that and no bear, I laughed out loud as I thought "The great Texan world outdoorsman killed by a moose. And then eaten by a bear."

My first day back in Houston I bought a 44 Mag that I still have over in the safe. Did I say I had a real adrenaline rush and a BuckWheat moment or two up there in those woods. I did !

Then on another trip I was salmon fishing with a guide there. I saw some bears catching and eating fish too. It occurred to me that I smelled like a salmon. So I carried the 44 Mag, just in case. Then the next day we saw a huge bear. Big, I mean real big. We decided to leave even though he was not close or acting aggressive. He had to be over 8 ft when he stood up on the far bank. Iwas glad he was a good ways away. The next day the guide brought along a big bore Weatherby with a short barrel and left it by a tree. I wondered if I needed to could I beat him to the tree - or now I knew why I had my 44 Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Tex, yes it was a 475 Turnbull.

When I stated built just like his, I was refering to the stock dimensions, barrel length etc.

That rifle handled real good and fit me perfect.

About what is the difference in the 475 and the hot 45-70 in energy just off the top of your head if you know.

I bet his personal rifle was very accurate too, but is it with the barrel sights? Buckhorn style or other?

Thanks.

You can go to his website and see his 475.
It had regular iron sights on it. I do not know the differences in energy off the top of my head, but I was suprised at the lack of recoil when I shot the 475T.

I had been looking at his 475, and his site of course, but as you, I think the 45-70 is enough for me in a 1886. I have had one for some years in the Marlin Cowboy gun that started me down this way.

I just have not looked to see what the real world differences are in hit. But I know the 45-70 will be enough for anything I want to get with it. Heck it may only shoot some paper. Or a deer and a pig anyway.

Thanks.

quote:

So the answer is "Get Both " afterall .

Which of those did you get first BTW? Is your Winchester one of the new-er Chiappas, or Brownings, or a USRA gun, or an older Win 1886.

I have looked for some older rifles, and I have seen a few that could be re-bored, new wood etc, but generally the early 1900's ones I see are either pretty beat up for $2500 and in calibers like 40-65 or in excellent shape for $15,000. I have looked off and on fairly consistently for a USRA Winchester, but none of the octagon barrel and long magazines came up for me.

While I am sure they are both great, would you offer a nod as to either being a more "quality" rifle than the other?

Bill Goodman is the Shiloh-Ballard in Bozeman, correct? Just roughly, what do you think his premium added to the rifle is? In dollars or in per cent either way. But I will call him too when I get sorted.

Yep, get em both. You wont be completely happy until you do.

I got the Shiloh first and it is the second one that I've owened so I was well familiar with them. The Win is a USRAC one that I found in the classifieds of this site. I bought it from Duke Nukem.

As far as quality, the Shiloh has better wood to metal fit.

Yes Bill Goodman is the Shiloh/Ballard guy and he charges 200.00 over list price. Well worth it in my humble opinion.

I would recommend getting a Shiloh in 45-70. The 45-70 is easier to work up a load for and if you want to slay dragons, a caseful of smokeless like 30-31 with a jacketed bullet will will bowl over any dragon but also the shooter .I would NOT plan on shooting 45-70s in a 45-90. Bad things will happen to the throat of your rifle. A Shiloh has probably the best wood to metal fit of any gun manufactured in the US, and it has a lifetime guarantee. If you shoot it so much that you wear out the breechblock, they will fix you up with a new one for no cost! A 45-70 with black powder, a 540 grain lead bullet will shoot completely through an American Bison. And the Shiloh will have a high resale value if you ever decide to part with it. Mori

Here´s the Shiloh stock list:

http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/home.php?cat=9

My rifle would be this one:
http://www.shilohrifle.com/sho...tid=106&cat=9&page=1




Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Fan:
Here´s the Shiloh stock list:

http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/home.php?cat=9

My rifle would be this one:
http://www.shilohrifle.com/sho...tid=106&cat=9&page=1




Martin

That one is a good one too. I am beating around the Sporter #1 vs the Creedmore. The double triggers vs the single really.

quote:

Originally posted by mori shultz:
I would recommend getting a Shiloh in 45-70. The 45-70 is easier to work up a load for and if you want to slay dragons, a caseful of smokeless like 30-31 with a jacketed bullet will will bowl over any dragon but also the shooter .I would NOT plan on shooting 45-70s in a 45-90. Bad things will happen to the throat of your rifle. A Shiloh has probably the best wood to metal fit of any gun manufactured in the US, and it has a lifetime guarantee. If you shoot it so much that you wear out the breechblock, they will fix you up with a new one for no cost! A 45-70 with black powder, a 540 grain lead bullet will shoot completely through an American Bison. And the Shiloh will have a high resale value if you ever decide to part with it. Mori

Thank you Mori.

In spite of "hearing" that you could back up and shoot the 45-70 in the 45-90 , I read a post from the Shiloh owner on the Shiloh Board that was completely different. Essentially he said if have you not been a black powder shooter, hmmm that would be like me, then order the 45-70 and after they could re-chamber the gun up to 45-90 etc when you got more used to BP loading and shooting. And he said, as you did, it will ding up the throat to use the 45-70 in the long chamber.

If I do order a Shraps I will likely go for the initials etc in it so it will be here for a while. I better think about that too.

I guess I can get a standard one, try it, and then sell it and order a dolled up one. However it is not the way I would normally do it, as I would go for the good one right off the first time.

Of course to be in the Sharps club, I will have to get to the blackpowder. It is like in Porsches - you can have a 951, a 928, a Cayenne, a Cayman, a Boxster, and Panamera, or even all of them at one time - but you arent considered to have a " real" Porsche until you have a 911 .


I remember the wait for these was 3- 4 years at one time. While I want Shiloh to sell all they can, I am at least glad it is 18 months or even in stock as Big Bore showed too. I would likely call Goodman and see about going through that channel.


BTW, how often in shooting them, do you have to clean these Shilohs? 5 shots, every day after shooting , every shot , or other?

If you use standard loads, or if you the paper patch. I thought the patched were both for accuracy and for wiping the bore.

I know that paper patching is a topic all by itself, so I will get to reading when some of the other books arrive.


Thanks to you guys and to you too degoin.

Ok I think I have all the Venturino books coming on both the Sharps and the Lever Guns of the Old West . SHould eat up a few nights reading.


Anybody add anything they prefer about the sights ?


And anything else on the 1886's as we are working the Shilohs over pretty good here.


Thanks guys.

KD, I use the buckhorn barrel sight for hunting and a Soule for just shooting. I can hit a moose at 200+ with the barrel sight and 300 if a wounded animal is getting away. Most of the time we shoot moose within 25 to 50 yards though. The Soule sights are expensive, the MVA is one of the better ones and they run around $400 to $500, but worth the expense. Jim

TexKD , Something else to consider in your choice. A Shiloh Sharps will handle any load that a Ruger No.1 will . Get the 45-70 and never look back. Mori

Here are my starting suggestions

1. No curved butts
2. If you buy a Sharps rifle get it with a Sharps cartridge. Same with a Winchester.
You can get a 45-70 anywhere.
If you go that way you may have to engineer your own chamber reamer to shoot modern cast bullets.
3. No jacketed bullets
4. I do not know how old you are but you will eventually not be able to see barrel sight well.
Plan on a tang sight.

All that said I would not buy either rifle you propose. I want rifles that I will wear out.
The Sharps for me is a pain in the butt to shoot.
1. First pull the hammer to half cock to keep from breaking the firing pin
2. Drop the lever and remove the fired case
3. Load and raise the lever
4. Hammer to full cock
5. Set the trigger
6. Fire
That is too much baloney and is the result of it being a hermaphrodite design. It was a transition between breech loading paper cartridges and metallic cartridges.

The 86 is an excellent design but I am not sure I would ever shoot one much. It is a hunter's rifle.

My choice of single shots would be the Shiloh quality equivalent in a Highwall using a Highwall cartridge. It is a John Browning design sold to Winchester. Get it with a close coupled set trigger and a nice tang sight.
Chose right and it can be a target rifle and big game rifle or even a buffalo gun.

quote:

What is bad is that I just dont have a lot more time. So something has to give. I hope I can buy some good cast boolits for this rifle. Do any of you, or do you all cook them yourself. I have to believe a 45-90 would also shoot the heavy jacketed bullets like the 405's too, correct?

I have been casting for just about 30 years now, and a lot of what you listed for as casting equipment is not necessary for what you are planning on doing.

Although there is no substitute for quality, a Lyman Mag Dipper pot offers 20# of lead capacity and is priced at roughly $200, an RCBS ladle runs about $20 or so, and a decent mould might run as much a another C-note, handles and all. I would purchase either the 45-70 or the 45-90 and then order up about 50# of 20:1 alloy. Once it shows, read the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (or PM me for a few "tips") and less than a week of dedicated casting practice will have you pouring as good a bullet as is possible. Yes, you will have to cull, sort by weight, etc., but you can pan lube the cast projectiles and load them unsized, in all likelihood. Initial outlay is a bit, but once you have the pot, mould, and ladle, everything but alloy is dirt cheap, and it doesn't take long to pour 100 or so high quality projectiles once you learn the technique. It can be done in a couple of hours, and you will find that the alloy used makes all the difference in the world.

There is just something about cutting holes at 100 yards with a BPCR and tang sights, shooting projectiles you cast yourself. It is addictive, as far as I am concerned.

Best of luck to you in whatever you choose, but the only real way to shoot lights out with a BPCR Sharps is to "roll your own", in my estimation.

TexKD--I think you would be a lot happier with the Turnbull 1886. You don't have the right mindset to use a Shiloh Sharps correctly--or appreciate it for what it is, or what can be done with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:

quote:

What is bad is that I just dont have a lot more time. So something has to give. I hope I can buy some good cast boolits for this rifle. Do any of you, or do you all cook them yourself. I have to believe a 45-90 would also shoot the heavy jacketed bullets like the 405's too, correct?

I have been casting for just about 30 years now, and a lot of what you listed for as casting equipment is not necessary for what you are planning on doing.

Although there is no substitute for quality, a Lyman Mag Dipper pot offers 20# of lead capacity and is priced at roughly $200, an RCBS ladle runs about $20 or so, and a decent mould might run as much a another C-note, handles and all. I would purchase either the 45-70 or the 45-90 and then order up about 50# of 20:1 alloy. Once it shows, read the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (or PM me for a few "tips") and less than a week of dedicated casting practice will have you pouring as good a bullet as is possible. Yes, you will have to cull, sort by weight, etc., but you can pan lube the cast projectiles and load them unsized, in all likelihood. Initial outlay is a bit, but once you have the pot, mould, and ladle, everything but alloy is dirt cheap, and it doesn't take long to pour 100 or so high quality projectiles once you learn the technique. It can be done in a couple of hours, and you will find that the alloy used makes all the difference in the world.

There is just something about cutting holes at 100 yards with a BPCR and tang sights, shooting projectiles you cast yourself. It is addictive, as far as I am concerned.

Best of luck to you in whatever you choose, but the only real way to shoot lights out with a BPCR Sharps is to "roll your own", in my estimation.

Thank you Doub. The equipment costs are certainly quite reasonable. What concerns me the most is just the time factor involved. Yes, I believe that rolling your own is very satisfying and would get the ultimate from your rifle too.

If I get this going, we will have to have a get together and have some BBQ and some shooting too.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
TexKD--I think you would be a lot happier with the Turnbull 1886. You don't have the right mindset to use a Shiloh Sharps correctly--or appreciate it for what it is, or what can be done with it.

Hmmmmmm.....


I am not sure what "right mindset" is required for the Sharps, or for any other guns for that matter, other than just to acquire one, shoot it, maybe hunt with it here and there, and to enjoy the rifle or gun and the experiences with it . After hunting and fishing etc in about 50 countries over the last 35-40 years, that has worked out very well so far.

I am not going to say now that the Sharps is going to be THE only rifle I will ever use again, but it COULD become that. I do enjoy other things too. I did leave it open to go to Africa by selecting the 45 caliber.

Is there some other particular mindset you recommend?

Hunting in 50 or so countries over the last 40 years is one thing, and I congratulate you for doing it. Owning a Sharps is something else entirely, as the rifle has much to teach you if you take the time and make the commitment to learn the lessons it can offer.

A Shiloh Sharps is a remarkable instrument, and can take you places in your shooting experience you have no concept of at the present. It requires a serious commitment and a willingness to learn in order to get the most out of the rifle. It is not simply another possesion. It can open your eyes if you approach it from the proper perspective.

For what it's worth, A Sharps works just fine in Africa, should you be inclined to take it.