Hello
This is my first post and I was directed to this forum with my question. Ihave a Savage model 219 single shot rifle. It is in .22 Hornet caliber. It is super accurate but sadly has a Shotgun style action and very stiff trigger Pull. Has anyone here ever had their triggers worked on in a rifle like this ?
Thanks to all that reply, Nammerdown-7

That is a real neat little gun with a period scope and mounts - a classic single shot! It should do well on the ground hogs and crows in the area. I have to wonder how it would do with cast bullets.

I picked up a 219 in 30-30 a year or so ago because I thought it looked neat and it was priced at only $75. I believe it is an earlier model as ot has the steel trigger guard instead of the cast one on yours. I might even hunt deer with it if i ever move back to East TN from here in Alaska.

My trigger pull isn't too bad but it is a bit heavy. You should be able to lightened the spring up somewhat and clean up the contact surfaces to improve things somewhat. I'll try to pull the stock off on mine in the next few days and see if I can furnish more details.

Enjoy Spring in the Smokies; we had a light snow here this morning but the afternoon was sunny and warm.

Hello Tvfinak
I have Two 219's and a Model 220 shotgun my Grandfather bought the first year they were offered which was 1937. The spring steel trigger guard is a Later Produced model 219. It may be a model 219-B as those were made Post-War and my 30-30 is a Post War Model. They have a Chiccopee Falls, or Westbury, Mass. address stamped on them, But my .22 Hornet is a straight 219 Being Pre-War it was made in Utica, New York at the Original Savage Plant location. My Post War 219-B in 30-30 has a date circle on the rear part of the receiver and shows to be made in 1965. The Pre-War ones do not have any Date code circles at all. My Later Post-War Model has a dove tail rail on the receiver for Mounting a scope, But my Pre-War model does not have that feature. Below is a Picture of my Post-War 219-B in 30-30 and my Grandfathers 220 Shot gun shown also with him and a Nice big Buck he shot with it in Up-State New York back in the very late 1930's. I have never sen another 220 shotgun like his. It has a Grouse in Flight scene on both side of the receiver, an Ivory bead sight, a Monte-Carlo style stock with cheek Piece,Beaver tail for end, fine 32 L.P.I. Checkering on the stock & For end, and a 36" Full choke Barrel. he ordered it brand new through the Montgomery Ward's Catalog in the spring of 1937 for $11.35 shipped to his door. I later Learned that When Savage bought Out Stevens they aquired a Bunch of parts for the model 220 shotgun as they had a One Year only Offering of this model in a deluxe trap gun. It had a different model number under the Stevens name which has now slipped my mind, But Savage used these Parts up in their first year model 220's and placed them on the mail order guns according to how much Volume the mail order companies sold. Montgomery Ward's was their top seller back then, so all the Options were installed on his gun.Sears Roebucks was next in line so they Marketed one with a few Less Options, Then J.C. Penneys was the Lowest volume seller so they got only acouple of Options on their guns that were ordered. My grandfather was never the wiser on this deluxe trap model he had bought, But cherished this shotgun to his last Days alive and wanted to make sure being I am the Hunter in tha family that I got it. I have had it since his Death in 1976 and it will eventually be Passed down to a grandson and never be sold.Thanks for the fast reply, I lok forward to yur response on this trigger Pull issue. I also Lived in Alaska back in 1978. I Lived just north of Kenai, Alaska in a small town called Sterling Alaska and worked for Marathon Oil Company on the North slope 40 Miles from the Russia Border. Thanks, Kurt

Kurt-

My gun is actually a Mdl. 219 with the Utica,NY address. It has a circle with "11" in on the frame on the left side at the corner in front of where your peep sight base is mounted. Perhaps it is an early post war gun made in 1946 before they changed addresses?

In looking at the action the striker spring appears very heavy for the caliber. I would try a lighter spring; for the hornet it should not take much to fire the primer. A lighter sear spring could also be use; try pulling the trigger with the gun uncocked and can see the spring force to just pull the trigger. I would also clean up all the contact surfaces by honing or stoning. Not sure where you could get the springs Wooffe or Brownels may be able to help since they are stright coil springs. If I find something I'll let you know.

I did some work for Marathon several years ago and visited most of their facilities on both side of Cook Inlet. When we were on the west side of the inlet i carried my .44 Mag; you never knew what you find over there. I wasn't aware they did anything on the slope. Sterling is much bogger now they have a Fred Myers store and a lot of other establishments. I may buy a place there as a permanent home in AK in case I need to work down in the lower 48 for a while.

I was here in 81-85 with SOHIO, left and then came back in 01. I'm orginally from Knoxville but got into the oil business so here I am!

The pictures and stories are neat, thanks for sharing them. We they taken in KY or elsewhere - I couldn't see the name on the state on the license plate.

Kurt-

Re-read you posting and saw that the deer was killed in NY - somehow missed that the first time with all the other information.

I'm going to try my gun with some cast bullets shortly - it should digest them fine and may group well I hope.

Hello Tvfinak
You raise several good points here. I have

Heard of one other Gun Like Your's having a

spring steel trigger guard but all the Other

one's I have seen are made out of Pot Metal

that appears to be aluminum, but it is not.

Utica, New York is the Oldest address that

these would have originated from and they

started making them in 1938 One Year

after releasing the Original shotgun model

220's. I am Not Familiar with their Date codes

but want to remember they started them as you

suspect in the late 1940's so perhaps

yours is an Early Post-War rifle. Mine has no

date code and if you Look close at the Barrel

of mine close to the receiver it has a slight

Beveled edge not seen on my Later 219 in 30-

30. the case Colors on my Pre-War 219 as very

nice for the age of it. The More they get

handled the less case colors we see. I suspect

my .22 Hornet was shot very Little because it

shows to be so nice and even the bluing looks

like the day it left Savage , Being very Black

and shinny and my later one has a Mild lighter

Black style bluing not so rich or shinny

compared to my Pre-War example. The deer pictures of my Grandfather were taken in

Upstate New York where he lived in Rochester

. He worked for The Eastman Kodak Company

all his life and the house in the Pictures was

taken at House He rented from Kodak while he

worked there and was Located on Eastman Avenue

right across from the main Kodak complex. The

Houses are all gone now and it is a Huge


parking lot. That deer was shot Once through


the Heart where my Grandfather hunted 60 Miles


south east of Rochester in a small town called

Naples, New York. He Loved to hunt down


there and took my father Later in life with


him to Hunt deer there as well on his friends


land. It was Killed on Opening Morning, and was


so big My grandfather could not drag it out of

the woods alone. He covered it up with Leaves


so no one else would take his prize Buck and


Hoofed it to the farm house and returned with


his farmer friend and a team of Plow Horses to


drag it out. They were met in the same Patch of


woods where he shot it and covered it up with

leaves by three Deer Poachers. The Poachers


claimed they had shot that Deer and were taking


it. The Farmer friend Headed for the main road


and as Luck would have it, The Game Warden was


just driving by as all this erupted. The Game


warden Knew the Poachers well as did the Farmer


so he asked if they could prove whether or not


they had actually shot it ? My Grandfather


stood by Quietly as these Three Guys Lied


through their Teeth and said they had dropped


the deer. The Game warden Looked at my

Grandfather and asked if he could Prove he had


Bagged it ? My grandfather told him he sure

could prove it, Then Opened the Buck's mouth


and withdrew his Hunting Tag that was all


filled out and signed by him. He was clever


enough to know if he had left the Hunting Tag


on the bucks Ear, a Poacher would just toss it


aside and claim the deer, But these Three


Fool's did not plan on my grandfather being so


sharp, as they Called his type City Guys back


then. All three were arrested and Taken to


Jail for Lying to The Game warden. later they


Paid Heavy fines for Poaching and for trying


to steal my grandfather's Prize Buck and all


three Lost their privilege to hunt for Five

years. My grandfather was a simple man, with


very Little Extra money so he took the Bucks

head & Cape and gave it to a Prominent attorney


in the City of Rochester and by the time I had


heard of this story and tried to ask him the

attorney's name, many years had Passed and he

had forgotten who he gave it to. I would have


paid a premium for that bucks Head to hang on


my wall. It was weighed that day at the local


Agway feed store in the town of Naples. Many


years later I was discussing this with the


pervious Owner of that Agway who was then 90


Years old, and it was him that weighed the


buck for my grandfather that day. Surprisingly


He even remembered the deer's wight of 265


Pounds Gutted. He went on to tell me it


was The Largest Deer ever taken in that town


and he had never seen one larger Taken since,


and he had been a Local Deer hunter in that


Town since they Officially Opened the Season


One Year before my Grandfather Killed the Buck


shown which was 1939. My grandfather


was a slender man never weighing more than 130


Pounds like in the Picture, but if you look


close at the bucks wide Rack span I would say

this may have been big enough to take the New


York State Big buck club or Perhaps the Boone


and Crocket award. It has to have at least a


26" spread as my Grandfather waist was 32" and

it was much wider in it's beam than he was. My

Grandfather used to take his whole paycheck


from Kodak home to my Grandmother, and she in


turn would give him Just Milk Money


for work as he carried a sack lunch and walked


across the street to work daily. He saved his

Lunch Milk Money for almost a year to be able


to afford to send off for this model 220


shotgun without taking anything from his


paycheck. it meant a lot to him when he gave


it to me and I will never get rid of it because


of what it meant to him and myself after I

Had heard all the stories about it. Later in


life my Father Moved our Family to Naples, New

York to live where he Liked to hunt so much


when he was a Kid. I grew up there, Got married


and eventually my wife and I Owned the land and


what was left of the farm that my grandfather


Killed the Buck pictured on. That Buck hung In


The Gamble roof barn that was well over 125


years old, made out of Old Post & Beam


construction and as strong and straight as the


day the Neighbors all had a barn Raising party


for my Grandfather's friend well over 100 Years


ago. when I bought the property and you could


almost feel him in that Barn at times as I


Climbed on my Old Farmall Super "A" Tractor


{Shown Below & Restored by me in my Old Barn} I


used to think about The Old days when they all


hunted my Farm property that had been mostly


sold off except the 31 Acres I bought almost


60 Years Later, and how Modern society had


ruined the flavor of the old Days that were so


simple and Pure to my relatives and Their


Friends back then. I Killed The Seven Point


Buck {shown below} But No where Near the size

of my Grandfather's Buck pictured above, on the


same farm land about 100 Yards from where my


Grandfather Killed his over a half Century


before me, and had it Mounted to remember all


the Family Hunts done on that farm. Back to


talking about Alaska, I Lived In Sterling in


1978, on The Moose River right behind a Chevron


Gas station which was Owned by a guy named


Roland. he also owned The Salmon Canning

Factory right behind it. The Post office for


Sterling, Alaska Back then was a Very tiny Log


Cabin and I want o remember it was not much

bigger than 12 Feet X 12 Feet with One Older


lady running it. I Hunted and fished a Little

up there and Once got a Plane ride up through


The turnagain pass and dropped On Kodiak Island

for a Grizzly bear Hunt.From what I remember


there was only The Chevron station, The Canning


Factory, a small Bar about 200 Yards north of


The Canning factory, and a bit further up the


road towards Anchorage a small Gun shop. The


Post Office was back on past the Chevron


station on the Left hand side after you


crossed the Moose river one or Two roads past


the river and down a bit on a dirt road. There


also was a small Fishing Lure & Bait place that


they also Rented small Row Boats from right on


the Moose river and in the spring I would go


down close to the river during break up and


Pull out all kinds of fishing Lures and sell


them off to the fishing place I think it was


called Laura's. I got Hired on at Marathon



after I fixed a flat tire on Vice President of


Marathon Oil's Lincoln Town Car Late one


evening after I closed the service station I


worked in at Kenai as a Mechanic and Tire


changer as I had a real Hard time getting new


tires back then as all the Products either were


flown in or brought by rail and trucked in


being very expensive. It was evident that this


guy Needed a tire and I gave him a decent one

to just get him on his way and me out of

there. He handed me a Business card and said


if he could ever help me, to let him know. I


looked at the card when I got home and decided


to call him to make sure he made it all right.


he was touched by my concern and I asked him if

he Meant what he had said about Helping me ?


He asked what I did and I said I was a


certified Welder but could not land a job


welding. he made an appointment for me the next


Day down at the shore welding shop if I

remember right, checked my welds with X-Ray,

saw I was Not Bluffing about being a good


welder and hired me one with Marathon Oil that

day. I worked for him almost a year when my


grandfather Passed away and I had to come home


for the Funeral. I never returned to Alaska but


it will always hold a special time in my life



that was so dear to me...Regards, Kurt

REALLY NICE SHAPE RIFLE! I don't have a good answer to you trigger tune question, but I bet someone can make it OK. In about 1962 when I was in 7th grade my dad bought an old 219 Savage in .22 Hornet. It was rtapped for a Weaver side mount and we put on a "cheapo" weaver scope,but it was accurate and would shout 1-inch groups at 100 yards. I got some varmints with including a "chicken-hawk" that had killed on of our chickens and quite a few 13-lined ground squirrels. Even with cleaning the barrel eventually corroded. I think these rifle must have had barrel with a bad steel as eveyone I have seen had a bad bore. I now have two of the 220 model shotguns in 12-ga. One os good shape and the othe is very good, but not as good as your 219 rifle. My 12-year-old grand son got to shoot one of the shotguns last year at hand throne clay pigeons with good success. However, we used the light-recoil 7/8-ounce loads as the gun is to light for full power 12-ga loads. That rifle is a classic!

Hello Iowadon
I wonder if the reason for the barrel issues may have been a corrosive Primer Issue on your Older 219 in .22 Hornet ? I have fired many rounds down the Barrel of my 30-30 and clean it often and it is still shinny. I am currently shooting some Newer Remington Factory 45 Grain soft Points in it and it grouped the target shown at 100 Yards as I sighted it in. The barrel on this one just Plain shines and I clean it after every time I fire it.. Hammerdown

Hammerdown7 - I was shooting the 219 - .22 Hornet in about 1962 so think the Winchester 45-grain loads had to have had non-corrosive primers. If the problem was from from cartridges shot many years earlier, the bore should have been very pitted when my dad bought the rifle. It seemed that the pits got larger and more numerous over the years, and I have never seen another gun do that given OK storage and cleaning. I started reloading for it when I was in high school and used 45-grain Sierra Hornet bullets loaded to 2700 fps according to my reloading manual. Accuracy was not as good as the factory cartridges then I remembered that in one of Jack O'Conner's books he said that although advertised at 2700 fps, the actual velocity of factory .22 Hornet rounds was only 2400 or 2500 fps. I loaded some to about that velocity and they shot 1-inch groups like the factory rounds.

Hammerdown7 - In your first post you said, "...but sadly has a shotgun style action..." I would agree that the 219 action may not be very strong and that the triggers pulls are bad, but I realy like single-shot break-over type actions for hunting rifles. I have some Thompson Center TCR rifle/shotgun actions and a number of the the interchangeable barrels to go with them. I like the way they can be quickly broken over for loading or for safety when needed. Their triggers can be adjusted for a good pull. With one .17 Hornet barrel I can get 5/8-inch 100-yard groups. I have had a Ruger No. 1 in .22-250. It strung shots vertically and I missed a lot of small varmints with it, and eventually gave up on it as a hunting rifle and sold it. I like the TCR's and their break-over action much better for hunting.

Hello
I Like the simplicity of these Savage model 219's actions myself, it is just too bad the trigger suffers and this can attribute to poor accuracy issues.. Hammerdown

It's not just the trigger that is less than ideal, the firing pin is worse. When I was about 14 years old (1963 AD), I was inside the house and dry firing at our mailbox about 100 yards away. I new there was a problem when I heard the tip of the firing pin hit the window. Even back then it took some effort to find a replacement firing pin. I doubt that it would be possible to find one now and it seems that it was a complicated looking thing so a gunsmith would present a high bill for making a new one. Anyway, I think it's a really bad idea to ever dry fire a Model 219 or 220.

Kirt-

You certainly have a lot of interesting experiences and stories to tell! Thanks for tales and stories.

My gun has the bevels under tha barrel also and has marking identical to your hornet. I'll post some pictures shortly. The receiver is blued rather than caseharden however but the bluing is the old rust bluing like on your barrel - not the shiney black finish on new guns. The front sight appears to be like the one in the picture and mine still has the old V notch rear sight. The bore is in excellent condition - I suspect the gun has been shot very little. The gun does have some speckling of rust but it helped bring the price down.

I came to Alaska the easy way - SOHIO flew my wife and son up with me for an interview in May of 81 and I fell in love with the place and finally came up to the job in early Aug. of 81. I was laid off with many other in Oct. of 84 and got out of town before everything went to heck economically. I finally ended up back in TX and had been laid off in late 2000 and was finishing up some of the engineering on the infamous barge mounted generators that ENRON put on in Nigeria in Feb. 2001 when I guy I knew called and asked if I was interested in going back to AK. I came up in March on a temporary contract job and worked until Aug. of 2004 when I took this permanant job with the govt. Compared to most of the lower 48 Anchorage and Alaska has not changed too much.

Incidently it is snowing like crasy here (4/25) - we have probably had about 6 in. on the ground since this morning! It should melt off this weekend and take a lot of the winter snow and dirt with it.

I went back to Knoxville in Spt. of last year for the first time since the early 90s. Knoxville was where I was raised and I still own 36 acres on the French Broad River just outside of town. I couldn't beieve how much that area has changed and all the deer, wild tukeys, and bears down there now. I'll proably end up back there eventually and build on my property on the river; I can fish and take my boat down the river to the UT football games. I may even come back and help TVA finish up the Bellefonte plant I started working on in 1971.

Did you ever say where you are located in the Smokies?

Hello Tvfinik
It Sounds as though we have Both covered much of the same ground and done about the same style of jobs through life. I worked for The Teamsters here in Knoxville after transferring my Local from Rochester, New York back in 2000. I have worked at the K-25 Plant at Oak Ridge and had a nice long stay at the Kingston Steam Plant working for T.V.A. in 2001. I was a Union Steward on all occasions when dispatched out to these Union Jobs, but sadly none of them led to permanent Employment. I took a withdrawal from my Union in 2002 after being placed on more jobs than I care to remember and many times being out of work more than I cared to be due to slow job status here in K-Town. I have been across the french broad river many times and fish several waterways here in and around Knoxville in my retirement. It is one of the best Places I have ever been to enjoy life...Perhaps, someday if you ever venture back to your Home town we can meet and enjoy some relaxing times fishing or Hunting together... Regards, Kurt

Hello IOWADON
Funny you would mention this dry firing issue and what the tragic outcome was. I too have dry fired my 219 but knew enough after it Locked up & Prevented the Opening of the barrel from doing this that it was not a Good Idea.I swapped a guy my Model 219-B in 30-30 for his Model 99-E Savage Rifle in .300 Savage at a Gun show this weekend. I have in the past had several model 99's but sadly I have let them all pass through my fingers and was at this Point 99 less in my Gun safe. I was sad to see the 219 go, But by the same Token Glad to get hold of the 99 that replaced it, as they too are getting Harder and Harder to locate. I have come across a few model 219's in 30-30 in the past couple of years so if I should want another one I know they are out there. I made the guy that had the 99 very Happy and as I have said many times before I sure can't afford to Keep them all I come across and I like variety, so it warms my Heart to share my finds with others while Moving on in other areas of Interest for my collection. Here is the model 99 I swapped for. Regards, Kurt

Hammerdown-7 -- The 219 Savage in .22 Hornet, which my dad bought was my first centerfire rifle. My second was a Savage 99E in .243 Winch. I worked the summer between 8th grade and high school lifting hay bales and cutting weeds out of soybeans to earn the money for it and it's scope. The scope was a used Weaver K-4 and the mounts were also Weavers. My dad did not hunt or shoot so I was kind of on my own and think I screwed up by not de-greasing the scope mounts and not getting them on tight enough. Anyway, I did get a few good groups with that rifle but it would not seem to stay sighted in. I wanted it mainly for coyote hunting and did get one with it. However, I usually saw coyotes at long range and the 99E had a short 20-inch barrel and my trjectory tests indicated that .243 did not have the flat trejectory it was supposed to have. An older friend bought a .30-06 and it shot a LOT flatter than the .243. My decision to get a .243 with a short barrel was based on article by a writer named Byran Dalrimple. He claimed the .243 was about as good as a .270, but compared the best .243 load to the round nose 150-grain .270 load, not the 130-grain loads which in the past were loaded to advertised velocity. He claimed that short barrels were the way to go. There might not be much velocity lose with a short barrel for the .308 Winch or .300 Sav but there is a lot more for the .243. Anyway, I was dissapointed with the .243 for long range coyote hunting and sold it and worked the next summer for money for a 7MM Weatherby with a long barrel. It's actual trejectory matched Weatherby's claims. I see Savage 99's at gun shows and at Cabela's and would like to have one again. An old one in .300 Sav with the Shnable forend would be my pick. Or maybe even a very old beat-up one which could be fixed up and have the stocks replaced with ones of highly figured walnut.

The 219 appear to have the same trigger setup as the Savage Model 94 shotgun. My M94 Savage 20gauge had a super heavy trigger pull from the factory.
It even have a heavy pull when the hammer was not cocked due tot he heavy trigger return spring.

I swapped out the very heavy trigger return spring for one that was a little lighter and got a normal 4 to 5 lb pull.

Hello ireload2
What type of spring did you buy ? Is there a brand name to replace this with as I doubt one could get any parts from Savage for this rifle ? Thanks, Hammerdown

Hammer,
The spring I used came out of a Lee Spring assortment. The spring is a standard diameter and length. I just used one with smaller diameter wire but the other dimensions (length and OD) were about the same. It was about 15 or 20 years ago so I don't remember more than that. I don't have time to take the shotgun apart tonight.
Lee Spring Company has every spring you can imagine and you might get them to send you a sample but don't tell them what for.

Hello ireload2
I appreciate your insight on this. Regards, Hammerdown

Hammer,
You can detemine what contribution to the trigger pull comes form the engagement forces due to the hammer spring and the trigger return spring. This might be a good topice for the gunsmithing forum.
What you do is measure the trigger pull weight as is. Then take the trigger return spring out and reassemble the trigger. Hold the trigger forward with your finger while you cock the gun.
The sear engagement will hold the trigger in place so you can remove your finger afgter it is cocked. Then measure the trigger pull force to fire the gun with no return spring.
The differences between the two forces is the amount contributed solely by the trigger return spring.

Hello Ireload
I appreciate your input on this. Regards, Hammerdown

I am searching for a Savage 219 in 25-20 caliber.

I had a Sav. 219 in 30-30 when I was a kid and I slew a ton of Mule Deer with it. someone had cut the barrel to 20 inches and refinished the wood and it was a dark well grained piece of walnut and had a really fancy checkering job..It was a beautiful rifle, and packed in a saddle scabbard really nice.

Hello Ray
Sadly you let go of one of the most sought after calibers ever made in the Savage model 219. I myself, have never come across one, But will be a buyer of it if it ever surfaces... Hamemrdown

Hammerdown 7,
In the mid 1940s my dad leased a ranch in Mexico and that ranch was crawling with deer as the locals had no guns at that time..My job was to feed a fencing crew with deer meat, and I used a Win. M-63 auto with hollow points to do that...An uncle of mine had a Savage 219 in 30-30 and he gave it to me, it was a really nice old gun that had been fixed up...My dad told me bring the rifle one day as we were going to make about a 20 mile ride to the back of the ranch and he wanted to kill a pig and shoot some deer to make sausage...He put me on a rock and told me that he and my brother were going to make a big circle and come back by me and might run a deer over me..I sat on that rock about an hour and 8 big mule deer bucks came strollin by on the opposite side of the canyon about 75 yards away...I shot all 8 of them with that single shot and they never ran, they just starred at me and I don't think they had ever seen a human with a gun..

Dad and my brother showed up and they were mad as hell because it too two full days to pack all those deer out to the house..We gave two of them to the local Mexican garrison of Forestals ( game wardens ) there and made the rest into sausage..It was a good time and place for a kid to grow up.

Hello Ray
What a Heart warming story and a man of your stature could have chosen any rifle brand out there, but followed your Fathers Gut Instinct and the Outcome was a mass of Deer Piled up to feed the needy. Arthur Savage would sure have been proud to read this testimonial, Thanks a lot for sharing it. Best regards, Hammerdown

Hammerdown did you get your trigger fixed?
I found my old trigger spring and a second replacement spring.

Hello ireload2
I havent gotten it fixed yet. i could not locate springs and ha no where to turn for them. Regards, Hammerdown

I have a savage 219 in 22 hornet. After I ruined a couple parts in the trigger assembly in my attempt to make the trigger better.I found replacements at Numrich.....original factory parts shipped to me complete with original factory rust...My 219 has a 24 in barrel and a 16 twist and it is very accurate with 40 gr bullets and lil gun powder..My second attempt at trigger work gave good results..