I need a new muzzleloader and love to collect rifles, so the Encore seems like a natural choice for me. I was set on buying one until I have read a lot of negative threads about Encore accuracy. I don't know much about "tuning" a rifle other than changing loads and trigger work, so I need a rifle that is accurate out of the box. Should I steer clear of the Encore? How does the muzzleloader shoot? I love the feel of the Encore and the thought of a new rifle (barrel) for under $300. One last and probably dumb question, what is the difference between the rifle and pistol frame?

Thanks for the help. This board has proven to be an invaluable resource for me. Nice to hear from people who actually own and shoot particular firearms.

I think that alot of the "inaccuracy" publicity comes from the "magnum crazed crowd".I don't shoot 150 gn Pyro and don't need to push the velocity potential of my Encore.The Encore has had great accuracy publicity when it was first introduced(when I got mine).People were satisfied with 240 gn Hornady 44 cal XTP,"mom and pop" green sabots,and 90 or 100 grains of Pyrodex.That combo still works for me.Not a problem with accuracy whatsoever.

Then comes the bad publicity.Guys started to say that the Barne$ bullets with "magnum" sabots were the only way to go.They are shooting 150 grains of Pyrodex.The green sabots won't hold up to the velocity produced by the charge of powder.Maybe so,I've no need to try it.I shoot the 240 gn XTP,green Hornady sabot,two 50 gn pyro pellet(or loose select)and have envious results.MY gun even shoots homemade maxi ball/hunters very well.I love it!

I just got some 777 powder and will try it out soon.I have heard mixed things concerning cleaning problems.My Encore is VERY accurate and I won't try to "fix what ain't broke".

Leave it to the Magnum guys to ruin an otherwise excellent firearms reputation for accuracy.If you need to use 150 gn Pyrodex,then I can't offer helpful suggestions.If you want to kill deer with it,stick to the tried and true.

Justin,

I can honestly say that my Encore is the most accurate muzzleloader that I have ever owned. I have now owned four muzzleloaders in my lifetime. I shot my Encore over the weekend with 100 grains of Pyrodex R/S. I shot a three shot group using this powder charge with 3 T/C 300 Gr. XTP Sabots and a 3 shot group with 295 Gr Powerbelt bullets. The XTP's shot into a 1.2" group and the Powerbelts shot into a 1.3" Group. With a muzzleloader, this is more than accurate enough for me. With any load that I have ever tried, I have never shot a group larger than 3".

I can't say that your results will be the same but I am sure tickled with my rifle.
8point

By the way Justin there is no difference between the rifle and pistol frame. My 50 caliber muzzleloader began life as a handgun frame. I just bought the stock, forearm, and barrel and now it is a muzzleloader (as well as a 12 gauge shotgun, 22-250, and .257 Roberts!).
8point

Not say anything bad abount the Encore I have one I can not get a good group and was using 180xpt but after talking to Encore owners most of them will not shoot light bullets you need to go with 275gr or bigger to get good groups with most Encores.There is no difference between the rifle and pistol frame.

I have an Encore and love it as well. The only thing I would add to what these guys have said it that the only tweeking I do is to get a trigger job and a Bellm oversized hinge pin to tighten up the action. For info. on the hinge pin check out:
http://www.bellmtcs.com/
This guy knows Encores! The hinge pin alone tightened my groups in my muzzleloader (209x50) by 1.5", it all so got my centerfires shooting at or just under MOA when I do my part. This is with factory ammo.

Just be smart when it comes to barrel selection. I have a rule I go by and others may disagree. Any belted mags need to be at least 24" Heavy Barrels. I also like heavy barrels in .30 cal or over. I have a .270win 26" t/c custom that is a tappered barrel that is a tack driver, but I would not want anything over .280rem in a tappered barrel. Just my preference. I used to have a 300 win mag (26" heavy) that would shoot 10 shot 1.25" groups. I wish I never had gotten rid of that one.

Hi Justin,

I have an encore (really 3) and shoot 295 powerbelts with 2 pellets of cleanshot. No deer in my part of the world can deal with it.

As 8 Point said, the frames are the same. Some frames come with handgrips and short forends and some come with buttstock and longer forends. BUT the frames are interchangable!!

Be forewarned. You will get a case of ENCOREITIS!!! There is no known cure for it. The only treatment is with more barrels, more frames, more stocks, more chamberings, more dies, more$$$$$. I think you get my drift.

Anyway, you go ahead and get the encore and don't fret about hearing of inaccuracy reports. Most of them are more accurate than the shooter.

JD

Thanks for the info., I think I already have ENCOREITIS. One firearm that can be a muzzleloader, rifle and pistol. What have I been missing... I don't expect MOA accuracy from a muzzloader as long it makes kill shots out to 150yds. I was more concerned over the rifle barrels, I do expect sum MOA out of all of my rifles if I do my part. I hunt a lot of open country with shots out to 400 yds normal, so accuracy is a must.

I guess my next question to answer is what Encore to get, blued w/walnut, ss/synthetic, ss/camo... so many choices.

One comment about pistol vs rifle frames. They are physically identicle, but not legally identicle, and it is a very important distinction.

If you perchase a frame designated as a rifle, then it is illegal to put a pistol barrel on it. It would be the same as making a sawed off shotgun, or cutting the barrel down shorter then 16" on a rifle.

If you purchase a pistol frame, you can put any barrel you desire on it.

Needless to say, you should buy a pistol frame!

Well, all I know to do is ask for prayer. I have contracted the bug, and I don't know if I am going to get out of it alive. It all started with a plain jane stainless synthetic 209x45 Encore. Then I decided that I needed a 7mm Rem Mag barrel for it. Hunted high and low until I found the one I was looking for. The stainless 26" Heavy barrel. Just today I got in my Synthetic forearm, so maybe tomorrow, I will get a chance to let go with some lead!

I really like the way my muzzleloader barrel shoots, I am loading two pyrodex pellets, and a 180 grain .40 cal Gold Dot bullet. Next fall I think I will try to work up a load with the 200 Grain Hornady XTP. That is another story though.

I am thinking varmint barrel next on the list. Maybe a 22-250 since it also comes in the 26" heavy barrel version. That would kind of keep everything the same I guess. I first toyed with the idea of the .223, then I got away from that, as I have an AR if I need to shoot the .223. Then greed has since taken over, and I want to vaporize crows at various ranges, so I think I have made up my mind to go with the 22-250.

Buy an Encore! Then sit back and enjoy the craving!

Paul, thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind, probably get the pistol frame, then start building from there with muzzleloader being first. Now...have to see what I can sell to get one.

Paul,
T/C won a law suite on the Contender Pistol/rifle frames in federal court against ATF several years ago. But some states such as California Probhites you from converting the rifle frame to pistol configeration, none of these frames are marked rifle or pistol only use. In T/C's catalog they make this statement, The Contender/Encore pistol can be converted to a legal carbine by the addition of a buttstock and a barrel of 16 1/4"length or longer and The U.S. Supreme Court has recently ruled that it is legal to sell and use the Contender Carbine Conversion Kit. In order not to be in violation of the National Firearms Act, when in possession of the buttstock, the end user must also be in possession of a barrel with a length of 16" or greater. This ruleing also allows you to convert back to a pistol. This ruleing would also cover the Encore. The booklet this came from was copywright 1994.
Albert

Albert,

The case that you cite concerns converting a pistol to a rifle, NOT converting a rifle to a pistol. As Paul properly pointed out, is illegal per Federal (not state) law to convert a rifle to a pistol without paying the $200 "tax" and submitting the proper ATF paperwork.

If you want an Encore Pistol, buy it as a pistol, or buy a pistol frame and assemble as a pistol first. Don't take your 209X50 muzzleloader rifle and put a barrel less than 16" on it, EVER (unless you want boarding and 3 squares a day at taxpayer expense for a long time).

We've been through this several times before, if you do a search, you should be able to find some heated discussions on the topic.

Bill

Bill,
From talking to a local ATF office in Alhland Kentucky in the mid 90',mind this was a verbal conversation and nothing in black and white, the agent I talked to at the time seemed to think the Supreme Court ruling covered the carbine/rifle also, since these frames are all manufactured as hand gun frames. What ATF was wanting T/C to do was mark all frames that were to be rifles as such so they couldn't be converted to pistol configuration, but this Supreme Court rullig nullified this order. And I've have been a FFL dealer since 1979.
Albert

I think the difference is about 2-5 years depending what part of the country and who`s in office at the time,Sorry,I just couldn`t resist that one.I like my Encore 209x50,but just can`t seem to justify 250-300 for a barrel that all I`ve heard has been bad.

Justin, go find a frame and then go to http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003907

I found a second 209x50 for the frame and selling the rest. I shot good with T/C 300 gr. sabots and 2 (50 gr ) pellets. I can send ya pics.

every encore i've owned was terrific. nothing bad about them.

watch out for the new strain of the bug: customencoritis

i now have some custom woodwork that fits much better than the factory stock, along with a custom 6.5 x 284 barrel and a .260 rem barrel (for my wife). the only fact. barrel i still have is a 12" 44 mag.

troy

Justin B.
I own 2 Encores now, (I bought a frame with pistol grips only) because I got tired of switching barrels, grips, and buttstocks.
When I get together with a few shooting friends, they won't let me have my gun back because they enjoy shooting mine so much better than theirs.

My 209 x 50 experiences were not too enjoyable at first, until I completed a trigger job, mounted a good scope, floated the forearm, used bigger bullets than 240gr HP/XTP's and finally switched from Pyrodex to 777.

I charge the 250gr HP/XTP's (.451 cal.) with a maximum of 130gr Triple 7.
150gr. charges is unnecessary, and is an invitation to less desireable target groups.

hmmmmmmmm......customencoritis. Seems to fit. Thanks
tcencore260, you have come up with a name for my
affliction.

But with three barrels already, and waiting for
VVCG to acquire a 223wssm reamer, I'm beginning to
get a need for another frame! They sure made me a
nice Tactical 20 barrel, and a custom Douglas 209x50
barrel! May just get that reworked frame from them,
too!!

smallfish, you are correct with the 100gr listing from Hogdon.
I worked my way up into this charge slowly, and did read some data from a Canadian bullet manufacturer that uses a full 150gr charge of 777.

The can has a table of charges on the label also that recommends a charge reduction from Pyrodex.

So why did I go beyond the table boundaries?

The Canadian bullet manufacturer did some tests and found that the charge was repeatable in an Encore.

Not to say that it should be done, but I did so as I said earlier, slowly and with a long string.

Recoil seems to be less than a 150gr charge of Pyrodex.