Anyone hear of doing a 50-110/50-140 rechamber or stub barrel using a NEF frame. I keep looking a doing one or the other or something along the lines of a 2.8" case using one of my NEF SB2 frames or a SBI Ultra Mag shotgun frame and a 10-20 ga barrel as the stub.

Turn the firing pin OD down to "normal" LR primer size and keep the presssure down also...

Cut the stub wall thickness to 0.0.75" - 0.085" and put the strength into the barrel chamber walls...the stub would just be a "hanger' for the barrel similar to Browning's alum framed rifgles...and it would have MUCH thicker chamber walls than the current crop of 50-70 TC Encores. 30-36" barrel "Quigley" cheap knockoff wannabee.

Comments???

Thanks

Luck

2 things that are really the same thing.

Firstly, choose the 50-110 and not the 50-140. Reasons: chamber walls will be thicker, brass will be cheaper and the 50-110 will produce all your shoulder can take and a LOT more.

Secondly, make the rifle weigh at least 10 lbs and install some sort of recoil mitigator.

I speak as the former owner of a Ruger No 1 in 50-110. It weighed 8 1/2 lbs and by the time I loaded it up to good-accuracy level with smokeless, it would kick the snot out of Godzilla!
Regards, Joe

Thanks J.D...

I DO understand recoil of the biggies, I have a 45-120, not quite as bad as the 50-140 but close and I built a 50 cal Rigby last year which has the same case capacity as the 50-140...I used a straight taper barrel and added weight to get it up to 12#...and several 458 WM wannabees from 7# to 8.5# that buck and snort good with 450-550 gr bullets at the higher velos.

I looked at Ed Hubels 499 HE but the cost of brass and dies puts that one on the "noway" list...plus I want the longer 32-36" barrel which weighs in at 9-11# to begin with.

Was hoping someone was a strange as I am...doing the odd stuff in "un-normal" ways...has already done something like it.

I can rent a 50-90 reamer but can't find a 50 cal necker/throater to extend the chamber length...haven't checked all the resources yet, tho'.

I've checked a couple of sources for base OD's...some give the same OD for both the 50-90 and 50-140 - .565"...one gives .551 for the 50-140, I have some Norma 50-140 cases that measure .565"...I think I will order a few 50-90 and 450 NE just to be sure.

50-90 die run 50 bucks and 50-150 run over 3 times that and RCBS run over $275...that won't cut it.

I'm still studying on it...

Thanks again

Luck

What is wrong with a .50-70 or .50-90?
They are single shot cartridges.

Foobar , I did a 500NE 3 1/4 on a NEF SB2, just had the under lugg fitted to the barrel .

When using full 500NE loads , one shot headaches & blurred vision was the norm .

I now use 50/140 & 500BPE loads , which are sweet compared to the full NE loads !

Use late model SB2 , it has small firing pin & is heat treated .

If you've got an Encore frame...

I've got a new MGM 50-140 barrel and a set of used RCBS dies I bought here a few years ago that I'd sell right.

It is built on a 14 twist Pac-Nor chrome moly barrel blank, factory heavy/varmint contour.

I stubbed my Handi SB2 to a 375 JDJ. Thats all the recoil that I want from that light a rifle.
I just had cataract surgery I surely don't to have surgery for a detached retina.

Thanks all...

SR4756...Nothing at all wrong with the 50-70 or 50-90...just wanted to look at other offerings...this project has been on my mind for at least two years and I've been looking at the 50-90 and 50-110 all along but wanted something slightly longer...2.75" to 3".

Sarg...who/where/how did you have the underlug fitted? It looks like OEM lugs are plasma or mig welded and I've heard of a few coming apart due to bad welds so I looked for other solutions. I looked for welding shops online for a while and talked to a few, but most wouldn't because of licensing/BATF concerns. Any direction in this department would be a great help. I can relate to the recoil...shooting 720 gr T-Rex slugs in my 45-120 at top velo's even in a 12# rifle off hand will set you back, as will 1000-1500gr slugs in my 12GaFH in my 9# Ultra Slug hunter WITH an MB, and they're only trucking slightly over 1200 fs.

Fireball...I have a couple of Encore and Contender frames but the T/C barrels are just TOO small OD for my taste even though I have little doubt about what they can handle. I've read a couple articles about the 50-70, TC Encore pistol and shooting heavy 500 - 750 gr bullets so some of my reasoning comes from that application...NO desire for a pistol, tho'...the 454 Casull is plenty big enough for me and so were the 458 WM XP-100 I shoot for a while.

Doug...I have a set of Redding 375/444 dies, brass, bullets etc and almost did a stub barrel several times...I keep looking for a real cheap .375 barrel AB Midway has them on and off and has an AB right now, but timing never seems right...it's also high on the todo list for next year but it might get moved to the front of the line as it will be very cheap(<$100 barrel and shipping) to get done. I think I just talked myself into it. I have more problem with the recoil twisting me around and mucking up my neck/upper back...my Chiro really love it when I go in...He's given me the "lecture" several times, but now he just grins/scowls, waves his wallet and points to the bed/couch thingy.

I might chamber for the 50-140 and just trim the cases back to 2.75-2.85" and seat the bullet to get the case capacity I want and use 50-90 dies...it works for my 458 A/450 M/459 WM/45-120 Always plenty of ways to remove the pelage from a feline species.

This fixed income, cheapazz, po'boy, make do, always scrounging and cutting corners everywhere BS really chaps my backside sometimes...most of the time. I'm guessing I will do what I usually do...buy/do what is required do the job done and eat grits, biscuits and gravey, beans and bacon and no steak for a couple months, and stay out of the woods to save gas money...not complaining too much, looking at what's happening in the middle East puts a very large pespective on my tiny problem/plight.

In any event I will get'r'done one way or another. Shooting those milspec 50 cal bullets in my 510 Makatak just whets my appetite for a real "Long Tom". Hahahahahah

Thanks again

Luck

Foobar,

why not just build a .500NE two and three-quarters or FL three inch length"? Standard case from Jamison and others, standard order(not cheap) dies, takes standard .510" bullets. Plenty of cast bullet moulds available if you choose.

I replicated an 1886 50-110 a couple years ago, lots of fun. Mine has a full octagon 30" long barrel with full magazine. You can get all the whomp you can stand with one.

The easy way out on the NEF is just to have an underrib fit to the underside of the barrel and attach a whole new forearm.


Rich

That would work, they are good choices and I did consider the 3" version...major problem is the cost of dies...I just WON'T pay $175-200 for dies and have to wait 8 months like the last set I ordered OR for the cost of the brass...I want to be able to shoot it after I build it...the $150-$200 plus difference in brass and dies will buy a LOT of bullets and powder. I have to pick out a few shooters each year to shoot...the rest have to wait their turn for later years... ...(the problem with a thin wallet and too many toys.) Hahahahahah

Same thing with the 50-110, which was also one of my first choices 2 years back...which is strange to me...the 50-90 is slightly bigger in the base and a bit longer.

I've done similar things to get the fore arm to hang on to a NEF BC...I made two dovetails to mount on the thicker barrel and used 1/4-28 button head machine screws, a fore arm from GUN STOCKS INC and inserted 2 3/4" brass plugs into the fore arm for the screws to lock against...the forend free floats except at the mounting points and is glass bedded at the frame...for a firm, even fit.

Basically, the information I've been really looking for is the OD sizes and lenghts of the stub barrel shanks and stub frame ID's, TPI used, lug attachments, who and where the conversions were done and that kind of info...I've already done 4-5 conversion in the smaller calibers.

I've even thought about using one of the 26" bbls or using a 32" 45-70 BC barrel and having it rebored. I'm leaning toward the 45-70 rebore more and more as it solves several problems while only increasing the total costs by just the cost of the NEF barrel, ~$140...but the total cost is stil $500-600 - barrel(s), reamer, dies, brass, reboring, fore arm, etc.

I'm really tempted to just buy another 45-70 BC and ship the barrel off to Jess Ocumpah for the rebore.

That would save a ton of mucking about with having a barrel fitted by NEF/REM...THEN sending it off to Jess. Besides the price of a new BC from one of the _Marts isn't to much more than the cost of the barrel fitting and I get all the other pieces and parts.

The major problems are the different take-overs, first Marlin, then Rem...lots of horror stories there.

I'm still cogitating and working through the individual problems as they pop up.

Thanks for your suggestion tho'...in a more perfect world my nickel snatching wouldn't be a problem and this project would already be Mr. Ben Dunne.

Luck

The 50-90 dies and brass are on the way. I made a couple drawings for dimensions for the stub shank OD and stub frame ID and found the 222RM donor barrel hiding behind some stocks.

I decided the cheapest way to go is by using a McGowen 36" straight cylinder bbl...$245...and doing a stub. It would cost almost $500 to have NEF do the 45-70 barrel install and then Rebore plus all the shipping.

At least I will have brass and dies to fiddle with while wait a couple months for the barrel.

I'm also looking for a levergun or single shot reproduction rifle... cheap...hahahahahahaha... I would cough up #8-900 for one of those instead of paying half that for the NEF conversion.

No, no, no...that's quite all right...no need for the accolades...I'm a simple, unassuming man...

Luck

Sorry Mate had my rifle done by a gunsmith in NZ & dont know how he attached the lug .

Good call on your part in the 50-90 , I made a mistake going 3 1/4in NE , should have been 50 Alaskan for ease of shells , dies & power level
Back then 50-90 was also hard , not so bad now days .

You learn each time , but it cost to much to do it again the right way

Foobar,
The last release of the modern 1885 Win/Browning/Mirokus in 50-90 2.5 Sharps sold out about 6 months ago. Before the last ones sold they were going for about $1000 to $1200.

You might pick up one of these as they get resold on the gun auction sites. You might contact Wayne at Texas-Mac. He may run into one from time to time.

Sarg...If the lug was removed from a donor barrel correctly, then jigged up and tig, mig or plasma welded back onto a donor barrel by a real welder, you probably won't have any problems.

I had pipe, unlimited, rebar and X-ray certs at one time but I can't see well enough to birdsh** a decent weld now...not to mention my twitches. Hahahahahaha At one time I could weld up the crack of dawn or a broken heart and you couldn't tell they had been broken...hahahahahaha.

I've been walking down this wildcatting road a long time and being a cheapskate and perpetually broke, I keep a pencil in one hand and the sharpener in the other.

Things change constantly and moment to moment. Last year the NEF 45-70 BC was going for ~$265 at Bi-mart and Bud's...and the cheapest NEF was going for about a buck and a half...I got a quote today from Bi at $422 and change, Buds $383...the fancy new thumbhole $260...and they keep phuquing with my S.S.

SR4759...I'm always a day late and a bunch of dollars short when the deals come by...I haunted most of the auction sites looking for just about ANY 50-90 I could afford...also Turnbull and Marlin 1895/336, but just couldn't get past the limitations of either "the WALLET" or the rifle...If I can find a really cheap Marlin 1895 450 Marlin V threaded receiver, I have some ideas about doing a 50 cal possibly, by turning out(almost), then recutting the receiver threads deeper and putting that lost steel back into the barrel shank OD.

Basically what some levergunsmiths do to the square threaded receivers without using the special cutters...and using 50-90 cases, but recutting the case to a rimmless configuration.

I won't really be gaining anything over the 50 Alaskan except getting rid of that HUGE rim...makes feeding a bit smoother...AND...we can't forget the bragging rights or the "only one in the world" FWIW...

So far the cheapest way is just the McGowen barrel and my donor barrel...next would be buying one of the new NEF fancy thumbhole stocked rifles and use that barrel as a donor stub and the McGowen barrel, or suck it up and rebore the shorter barrel...those costs are a wash and ends up ~$550 plus reamer rental...only about 10fs/inch velocity change...590 gr bullet at ~2050-2100fs isn't anything to scoff at no matter WHAT length the barrel is.

Cheap John it for ~$350 or get fancy for ~$550....or wait a bit.

First snow might come in the next couple days...plenty of time to save this winter and decide. Maybe I will get another lucky streak and find a Turnbull or replica levergun or a nice Uberti or Sharps...a REAL Sharps. I'm a pessimistic optimis or maybe a optimistic pessimist...it varies by the hour.

Thanks for the info and possibilities.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:
Last year the NEF 45-70 BC was going for ~$265 at Bi-mart and Bud's...and the cheapest NEF was going for about a buck and a half...I got a quote today from Bi at $422 and change, Buds $383...the fancy new thumbhole $260...and they keep phuquing with my S.S.

...those costs are a wash and ends up ~$550 plus reamer rental...only about 10fs/inch velocity change...590 gr bullet at ~2050-2100fs isn't anything to scoff at no matter WHAT length the barrel is.

Whittakers has the camoflage synthetic stocked 45-70's for $179.99, bought one last week - $199 out the door.

I'd sell that 23.5" 50-140 Encore barrel, dies and some Jamison brass for less than the price you've quoted above.

I spent most of yesterday online hitting all the auction houses, Marts, barrels for sale etc...the cheapest NEF in town was $260, ordered in...and going to the auction houses adds FFL dealers price and shipping...EBAY the same way.

Plus the fact I would be throwing money down a rat hole as it would still be a relatively low value NEF plus the fact very few would want to pay the price for the barrel alone, when I got tired of playing with it.

I figured that at slightly half the price of a new 1874, the NEF wasn't anywhere near being worth messing with.

I just ordered a 1874, 50-90, 34" Quigley model from Buffalo Arms and it will be here in 2-3 weeks. At least if I get tired of it I can sell if for what I paid for it. I might even run a 50-140 reamer in it just for kicks, after I play with the 50-90 for a while.

Now all I gotta do is rob Peter to pay Paul and keep Peter at arms length. As long as I pay the vig he won't break any bones.

Foo,

my brother has a Shiloh in 50-90. At 16lbs it is still a handful. We shoot the Quigley with a fellow from S Dakota who has a twelve pound Shiloh in 50-140. I shot a relay between the two and the blast wave (using black powder) was something to be avoided.

The 50-110 was actually three loading on the basic case. 50-110-350gr bullet, 50-100-450(?)gr bullet, and 50-90-500gr bullet.

Rich

You need to talk to Ed Huble.
He has rebarreled a NEF to 585 Huble express and its a monster.
Do a search in the 12ga from hell thread and you will see it.

Cheers, John

Rye-tawn about the 585 HE...I emailed Ed quite a spell back about doing one of those...the cost of brass, bullets, barrel stopped me...I ended up almost doing one of the 20ga 615/620's and was about to send in my receiver/order a barrel from NEF when all the "stuff" started happening so I backed off.

Since I already have a 12GaFH, the 615 Hellboy Express project went on the back burner. Much cheaper using plastic hulls and you get all the whack you ever want from either end. I will do one of the 615 Hellboy Express one of these days if I can find a 26-28" 20ga rifled barrel cheap. Now that the 600 OK has a few rifles out there and the 615 HBE also, there are a few casters making .620" bullets.

I DID go a little bit nutz and bought a 50-90 ArmiSport Sharps 34" Quigly from Buffalo Arms. It's only 12# with a 1-22 twist...I posted some data somewhere about it and the few loads I started working up with 475gr, 525gr and 590gr bullets.

It's quite a handful, lengthwise AND recoil wise with the straight grip stock, I need gloves and sticky grip to hold it due to the double set trigger length...should have bought the curved pistol gripped Billy Dixon version, my wrist/hand just doesn't do well with straight grips...I know better as I have the same trouble with my other straight gripped heavy hitters, but the straight grip just LOOKS much better.

The "590" BT actually weighs 575gr after I turned the bullet above the cann down to act as a borerider and also to be able to actually crimp in the OEM cann. AA2495 and AA4350 have the best pressure/velocity per QL...AA2495 is hitting around 25fs of what my Beta chrony is indicating...but my batch of AA4350 is ~100fs plus slow with every powder amount I tested, it's probably 30 years old anyway so that is to be expected....the new mfg AA2495 hit 2000fs at just below 29KPSI...Italian max for this rifle...~5000ftlbs of swhackadoodledoo...I'm talking BIG GRIN and belly laugh. Not quite up to my 510 Makatak, but it is a hoot to shoot.

I had the though in mind to rechamber to 50-140 as soon at it arrived, to shoot the milsurp 650gr stuff but the 1-22T won't stabilize much over 1.65" length, plus the 6 shallow lands probably wouldn't stand much erosion before going south.

I LIKE IT.

Luck