I would like some opinions on using my Ruger No.1 458 Lott for ele,buff,hippo, & rhino..... 4" S&W 500 for backup.

I wouldnt hesitate to use the rifle, but I'd leave the sixgun at home unless I just wanted to shoot something with it. By the time I could yank it out to use it for a back-up I could have reloaded the rifle.....and actually expect to hit something with it.

If you are accurate with the rifle I say go for it! One of my favorite rifles is a #1.

With a .458 Lott and a well placed shot, none of the game listed should take a step after

I think you'll be fine with the #1, but agree with degoins that you should leave the the .500 at home, as you will have your PH there to back you.

FWIW I believe some of the African countries have gotten snippy about letting you import a handgun that isn't patently a "hunting" handgun. The little fellows that let you into the country usually define that by the handgun being:

a Single Action
b 6" or longer barrel
c equipped with a scope
d a combination of some or all of the above

IMHO you'll stand a better chance of having a gun arrive with damage from traveling than you will of needing an on body backup weapon. I'd just take a second rifle.

I agree that I should be able to get it done with the rifle alone....and with one shot. That's the way you should approach any game. Things can go wrong though and I feel safer with a big bore revolver for backup. I seen my uncle get gored by a big brahma bull(he sidestepped it a little and didn't get the full force of the charge but was still busted up pretty good) and his holstered SBH .44 mag may have saved his life. The bull was knocking him around on the ground and being the tough s.o.b. that he was,he got it together well enough to put a round in the bull's chest, then 2 in his head. We thought he was a goner as he was the only one of us that was armed and was really struggling to get his sixgun into action. That's why I like a big bore double action for backup because it happens so fast. That occurance made me want to keep a big sixgun on me at all times when around any beasts, two or four legged, that can toss me around like that. Icouldn't imagine what a cape buffalo could do to you! OUCH! I would only use my revolver as a last ditch effort or as a finisher though. Any scoped .458 Lott beats the hell out of any revolver, even the .500 S&W. I would take it if I could but would be ok without it too. Like you guys mentioned, there will always be a ph there. I hope to get to Africa in a year or so. $$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!

The adage "you use a handgun to get to the nearest rifle" applies in combat as well as hunting. A lessor caliber rifle is still more effective than a large caliber handgun, regardless of the circumstances.

Besides, I;ve seen offciers in combat reach for their M9 9mm rather than swing up the M4 hanging from a combat sling... Had to slap them around a bit after that. Made one of them leave his M9 home, so he wouldn't likely get me or himself killed.

Most see the effect of a few 9mm compared to one 556 and they are believers!

srshooter
If you are going through South Africa I recommend you put a scope on your handgun as that makes it a "hunting" handgun in the eyes of SAPS.

Then when you get to where you are hunting, take it off.

Just be sure and put it back on for the return trip through SA.

If you can hit with the Lott you'll have little need for a four pound sidearm. If you muck it up with the Lott is a 500 revolver likely settle things to the satisfaction of you, your tracker, and your PH?

Thanks for the replies everyone. I agree that the backup .500 isn't necessary but I like to carry it. I would only use the revolver if I did muck things up. In that case I'm sure that my P.H. would be unhappy as would I... but a last ditch effort with the .500 would certainly be better than a situation where I got gored while fumbling for a cartridge to get in my No.1. It is very doubtful that any of this would happen though. With proper practice I shouldn't muck things up. If I did the P.H. would be there for help. The main reason for the post was to get opinions from others about using a single shot for the dangerous game of Africa. Most people seem to be against it but I'm confident in my rifle and my ability to use it. I'm no master marksman but I practice a lot both shooting and reloading as quickly as possible. The #1 can be reloaded pretty quickly with practice but doing it under the stress of a charging buffalo or rhino could definately challenge one's motor skills and ability to stay calm and focused.

The 4" .500 S&W can be deployed quickly and effectively with practice. I subscribe to the TKO theory developed by John "Pondoro" Taylor. Though it doesn't account for bullet design or penetration, I think it more closely reflects the effectiveness of a cartridge than muzzle energy, especially when using solids for thick skinned dangerous game. As long as the bullet penetrates, the bigger the bore, the bigger the whole, the better it will stop game. Using this theory, the .500 S&W will stop game better than many powerful rifle cartridges. It compares very favoribly with the various .375 magnums and approaches the .416 & .458 cartridges but you must practice with it a lot to become profficient and confident. Inside 25-35 yards I think it can be used very effectively and has already done so. That said, if I do my part correctly, it will never clear leather on such a hunt and the P.H.'s rifle will remain quiet as well. I think the most likely scenerio in which the .500 would be deployed is if the beast charges, takes a .458 Lott round and a round from my P.H. which turns him or drops him at extremely close range and as the beast tries to regroup and refocus, he receives several .500 caliber 500 grain rounds, d.a. style, to prevent him from following up on his plans to eat me or mix me with the African soil! Again, I realize this is very unlikely but not impossible. Many experienced hunters like John Taffin, J.D. Jones, Larry Kelly and Jeff Quinn use big bore handguns as backup or primary weapons for large and dangerous game with very good results so I know it can be done. I hope to follow in their footsteps one day but my first trip to Africa for dangerous game will be done so with either my No.1 .458 Lott or my current project ......a CZ 550 converted to .500 A-Square. Probably the No.1 .458 as I'm confident in my abilities with this rifle. We'll see how I do in practice with the .500 A2. If I can use my .500 S&W for backup I probably will but if it's illegal then it's a moot point. I'll find out before I go. I just want to get there! Soon! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Regardless of the TKO values or muzzle energy of these fire breathing magnums, history has proven that shot placement is the key to any successful hunt. Some guys could probably humanely take all the earth's dangerous game with a single shot .30-06(not me!), given the proper bullet for the job. Then again, some guys can hardly bring down a whitetail with a semi-auto .50 BMG without a lengthy followup on the slowly dieing, gut shot, hip shot deer. The great ones make it look easy while most of the crappy ones usually try to substitute shot placement with more power. More power is great IF you can handle the blast and recoil. Likewise, many people scoff at the idea of hunting dangerous game with a single shot. They act like you might as well be armed with a sharp stick. While these folks are saying it can't or shouldn't be done.....someone else is doing it and making it look easy. If you are JUSTIFIABLY confident in your ability with your choice of weapons, then go do it! At least, that's what I think.

PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE!!!! Thanks for all the input. Everyone has different views and we can all learn from each other. I'm really glad I joined this forum.

I think the best thing you could do is ask your PH for his opinion on the subject, as he may have some very strong feelings one way or the other. When it comes down to the moment of truth, you need to have absolute confidence in your rifle and not be second guessing yourself. My biggest concern with the single shot rifle/handgun for back-up scenerio would be that in the heat of battle there might come a moment when you hesitate, wondering "do I have time to reload or should I pull my revolver", and we all know that a moments hesitation can spell trouble.

While there is no doubt that a #1 in .458 Lott can be used successfully on DG, my choice would be the .500 A-Square hands down. With all of the time and effort you're spending having it put together, it would seem a shame to leave it at home. Trust me, your gonna like it.

DGR Shooter; I probably will take my .500 A2 to Africa if I have time to become skilled, comfortable and confident with it. Believe me, I wouldn't take any gun over there that I'm not profficient with. As to when to pull the revolver, the situation would dictate that and if I'm properly prepared mentally and physically, I'll do the job right. If my shooting don't do the trick, I'll just 'rassle the joker to death!!!
No, seriously, I'll be well practiced with any firearm(s) I take. The .500 A2 is definately the best choice though, as long as I can shoot it well. I'll have to see what she likes to eat and check it THOROUGHLY for reliability and get used to its recoil. Everyone says that I'll like it and I'm sure I will.

There's just something about taking dangerous game with a single shot that's alluring to me. Dangerous game with a handgun is cool to, IF you can shoot it straight and KNOW its limitations. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!!

quote:

There's just something about taking dangerous game with a single shot that's alluring to me. Dangerous game with a handgun is cool to, IF you can shoot it straight and KNOW its limitations. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!!

Some guns just seem to hold a special place in our hearts, and for me, the gun I choose to take into the field is an important part of the hunt. It's more than just a tool!

Any of the guns you're considering are more than adequate (well, the .500 S&W might be marginal, but it has been used successfully in the past and has a proven track record )and I'm sure you'll be successfull which ever gun you choose to take. Best of luck when you get over there

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew cempa:
The adage "you use a handgun to get to the nearest rifle" applies in combat as well as hunting. A lessor caliber rifle is still more effective than a large caliber handgun, regardless of the circumstances.

100% disagree. There are single shot Encores that are built in rifle calibers. I have a 416 GNR which shoots a 400 grainer at about 2000 FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew cempa:

Besides, I;ve seen offciers in combat reach for their M9 9mm rather than swing up the M4 hanging from a combat sling... Had to slap them around a bit after that. Made one of them leave his M9 home, so he wouldn't likely get me or himself killed.

Most see the effect of a few 9mm compared to one 556 and they are believers!

That only proves what a piece of shit the 9mm is. I'd bet a 45 ACP would do a whole lot better.

If you pack that handgun about 20 miles in the Tanzania heat it will become a burden and that I guarentee..One Tanzania death march and the pistol will go in the lock up at camp..and I packed a pistol on my hip almost every day for about 40 years.

No doubt, it's a heavy handgun! It's about 4 pounds when loaded. I do stay in shape though. I am a machinist 40+ hours a week in a small, hard working shop. I am also a boxer who works out 5-6 days a week, including a lot of running, weightlifting and cardio work. Most hunters I know are chain smokers with beer bellies who complain about a 9 pound rifle being too heavy. They'll spend an extra $1000 to get a rifle that's 2 pounds lighter but won't spend some time in the gym getting the extra 30-40 pounds off their bellies!

Mr. Atkinson, you are a very experienced guy who has hunted with a lot of people and I'm sure you know what you're talking about. If you say the gun will get heavy then I'm sure it will but I'm used to getting tired. That big revolver does weigh me down a little but I can handle that ok. The extra insurance is worth getting a little more tired to me. Each year many out of shape pencil pushers go to Africa and shoot a buffalo. If they can carry a rifle, then I can carry a rifle and a revolver. IF THEY DO GET TOO HEAVY, I'LL JUST KILL THE BUFFALO WITH MY BARE HANDS !!!!!!!

From the posts I've read, it sounds doubtful that I would be allowed to carry it in most African countries anyway.

I won't argue that the big revolver might be an unnecessary burden at times, during a long and tiresome hunt in that kind of heat. I will say that most people would be better off if they worried about their conditioning as much as their gun weight. It might sound crazy but I view the long tiring marches through the African heat as part of the challenge and allure of the hunt. Hard work builds character and everlasting memories. I just want to get there.....with or without the S&W 500!

Thanks DGR Shooter. You're right on! The firearm I use is much more than a tool. I love powerful firearms but I view them as more than an instrument of death. A good hunter can make his favorite rifle really shine and a bad hunter can never seem to get enough power or enough range, firepower, bullet performance,.....etc.,etc.,etc. These are all nice attributes but it's up to you and me to make them work in the field. I hear so much arguing about firearms and cartridge performance when bullet placement is almost always the deciding factor. PH's are always having to finish off animals shot by clients with some flinch inducing monster magnum they think they need to carry, instead of a gun they can shoot. It takes a lot of practice to be able to shoot big bores accurately. I'm still working at it myself and will work overtime when I get my .500 A2.

HOW you shoot is much more important than WHAT you shoot, within reason of course.