I bought this rifle not really knowing what the heck I was buying so know I would love some help in that department. The seller told me it was an 8x57 but that is definitely not the case. I made a chamber cast and as best I can tell it is an 8.15x46 that somebody ran a 32-40 reamer into after they brought it over here (unless there is an extra long version of the 8.15?). The bore measure .317 so I have bought some 150 grain .318 bullets to try in it. Would it be safe to use 32-40 load data?

The barrel is 26 inches long and it look to me like somebody lost the original forearm and remade it all. Is there anybody here that can confirm this and if so what the original forearm would have looked like?

It also appears like somebody has drilled and tapped the left side of the barrel for a Lyman peep?

Finally if anybody can provide me with any other general info about the rifle, what it would have been made for, what all the proof marks on the barrel stand for and a rough estimate of the gun. Thanks for all the help

It is what is commonly called a "kiplauf". Obviously no flys on the maker, nice piece!! I'm unaware of a particular long necked version of the 8.15 X 46R. If a chamber cast proves it to be a 32-40 then I suspect you are correct that it was rechambered. Acquiring a firearm in a misidentified German cartridge sadly is not uncommon. Once correctly identified it doesn't hurt the rifle but can be an inconvenience or disappointment. Too many sellers have precious little knowledge of German cartridges and assume way too much.

In my 8.15 X 46R I shoot 12-14 grs. of IMR-4227, 20 grs. of Reloader 7 but mostly shoot 12 grs. of SR-4759. All those beneath a 170 gr. cast bullet. Mine slugs bigger than yours, not uncommon, and I've also tried some jacketed bullets over the same powder(s). I believe I'll stick with the cast.

I believe I've seen that rifle somewhere. May I ask if you acquired it from an auction site or if it may have been listed on an auction site at one time? I too noticed the forearm and believe you are correct. I think if you browse through the auction sites you will find a few very, very similar rifles and the fore arms on some of them should give you an idea of how they were supposed to look. Memory tells me they thinned quite a bit more at the tip, toward the barrel and may have been a bit longer. There may be some marks on the lower part of the barrel that could confirm or deny the fore arm length suspicion.

The holes tapped into the side of the receiver may have been for a scope mount. (I KNOW I've seen that rifle now...I remember asking about those holes and seeing what looks like pliers marks on the side panels!) I can't tell for certain but the spacing seems too wide for a Lyman or any other aperture sight.

The stampings. the WK in script I believe is for a Kelber, the barrel maker, whose first name I am not certain of. I want to say Wilhelm but don't trust that. The crown over "B" means the rifle was proofed in its finished state. There should be a crown over "U" present...but maybe not. 7.7 is the bore diameter and 4/24 means the rifle was proofed, in Suhl, in April of 1924 and was the 129th rifle to be proofed that month. The 9999....I suspect that is more of an assembly number than a serial number. Used to keep the fitted parts together.

You have a pretty nice piece! It's interesting it has the Collath type safety yet marked Sempert-Krieghoff. The 8.15 X 46R and the 32-40 both have an excellent reputation for accuracy. Brass is easily made for either.

As the 8.15 X 46R was the premier target cartridge in Germany for a looooong time it's possible the rifle was used for some match shooting. The cartridge is not overly powerful but certainly adequate for roe deer and like sized game and it seems to me the rifle was probably used for game of that size.

I've seen other rifles built on that receiver. I think it was a standard forging from Suhl because I've seen the same action by several other Suhl makers of that time period. It seems to be a light frame designed for low pressure light cartridges. Kind of like a Thompson contender versus an encore. I've seen these chambered in .22 hornet and 6.5x58 Sauer. 8x57 would have been a real stretch for this reciver.

I believe you're right Ak, about the strength of that particular sized receiver. There are extant other kiplauf's chambered to the heavier cartridges in heavier receivers. GGCA had a drawing on one quite similar about 4 years ago and I'm fairly confident it was 8 X 57R.

The names on the barrel ribs are quite often merely the retailers and not the maker. Even major name manufacturer's often bought product from smaller shops and branded them with their name. That happened in both Germany and Great Britain.

The barrel maker is indeed Wilhelm Kelber.

Thank you both for the help and information. I also feel like I have seen a couple of very similar actioned rifles for sale since I bought this one, including an 8.15x 46 r that is currently for sale on gunbroker. This rifle also came off of gunbroker. I had bought this gun thinking it was an 8x57 and planning on using it for white tails in thick cover but now I am not so sure. I still think I should be able to get around 2000 fps with the 150 grain bullets which I think would be ok for shots inside a 100 yards. I have even considered having a second barrel made in 357 max so I could use it on deer here in Indiana but am not completely sure that would be a sound decision. The action seems in really good shape with almost all color case still there and the engraving is very clean. It weighs in at just under 6 pounds and the rifling is pretty good with just a little bit of pitting.

Do you have any idea what scope mount might fit the holes on the side?

I really don't buy guns just for target shooting so I am still a little unsure what will ultimately happen to this rifle.

Thanks again!

This is just one man's opinion...and worth what you paid for it...but I believe I would work up a load for the rifle that you like and leave well enough alone. I'm not certain a 357 barrel would really give enough increase in ballistics to be worth the expense or effort. You might consider cast bullets of 170 grains. That was pretty much the weight of bullet with which the cartridges gained their reputation for accuracy. It would also offer more penetration than the 150's.

That many deer have been taken with the 8.15 X 46R is indisputable. A good friend of mine has taken more than a few and when I acquired my first rifle in that cartridge he admonished me to "pick your shot".

I suspect finding a side scope mount that will fit those holes is going to be near impossible. I believe one will have to be modified. I would definitely do that as to drill and tap more holes in the receiver. I wouldn't think it would take a lot to find one and either modify it yourself or have it done.

It is a nice rifle and the only reason I didn't consider it farther is the replacement forearm even though that is a fairly easy fix. I work with a lot of old German firearms and as with all makes prior to WWII original specimens are becoming more scarce every day. For me I am loathe to further alter any I own. As with yourself I would have been a bit chagrined at it being the 8.15 X 46R and not the 8 X 57R it was advertised as.

Oh..I apologize for my previous comments on the 357. I just re-read and saw where you said 357 Maximum. I still don't believe I'd do it....but that's me and it is your rifle.

The '7,7mm' stamp has me thinking.
Could this have been a rebore/rechamber from a 7.7mm Arisaka or .303 Enfield?



George

No sir George. That's an original proof mark and is how they did it in Germany. Here in the US we use groove diameter for the most part, 308, 284, etc. Back then in Germany they used bore diameter. Besides, he made a chamber cast and the 7.7 Jap and 303 British are nowhere similar to the 8.15 X 46R.

Here is a picture of the chamber cast with a 32-40 brass next to it. The pen is pointing at a small change in the chamber. From here back it has the same dimensions as a 8.15x46r. I think that the rifle could have been brought back fram the War and no ammo was available so a 32-50 reamer was ran through it. I believe this would have only lengthened the neck and not have done anything else.


I am probably just going to play around with it as is except I will most likely remake the forearm one of these days and probably refinish the buttstock since somebody got white overspray on it at some point in time!

I expect you're quite correct Left. Seems odd someone would have chambered it even longer than the 32-40. That is a piece of 32-40 brass, correct?
It will be a snap to form 30-30 brass for it. About the only problem I ever heard of was that occasionally the rim might need thinned. I didn't have to do anything other than size and trim 30-30 brass for my 8.15 X 46R and you shouldn't have to trim. The bullet diameter dances around a bit but you have that rectified.

I think you'll like the cartridge and rifle. It is nearly always accurate and certainly pleasant to shoot. I'd do something with that forearm also.

I know of a guy...doggone if I can remember where he lives...who worked up a 100 gr. load for his 8.15 and has taken several deer with it. He claims it's effective. I expect he's getting a fairly high velocity with that light for caliber bullet.

Hey Left, I sent you a PM.