Got an SPR18 (.308) the other day and ordered a set of (Remington recommended) Warne 7.3 heavy-duty rings to fit the rimfire-style 11mm scope rail milled into the receiver. In order to get the 2-8 Simmons Whitail Classic compact scope to fit, I had to space the rings as far forward and rearward as I could.

At first glance, everything looked fine. Then I tried to bore sight it. I found out rather quickly that there is not nearly enough windage adjustment available to get the crosshairs on the target. I went to the range anyway, where my calculations were confirmed when the rifle, adjusted as far right as possible, still grouped 26 inches to the left. I left the range and headed straight for David's Gun Room in Norcross (where I bought the gun) to get some advice. There, the staff took one look at the reciver and could tell the scope rail was way, way, WAY miscut, causing the rings to sit on the rail at a severe angle. My salesman quickly called Remington Customer Noservice, who, predictably, said send it to their repair facility in Florida where they will look at it.

The problem is, this rifle is to be a Christmas gift to my son at Auburn University, who asked for a cheap rifle that he can keep in his apartment in Auburn (home break-ins are a problem there and he did not want to risk his really nice M-77, Mark II). He arranges his classes around deer season and the late Alabama rut (January), when he hunts at least three days a week (I taught him well).

With what Remington was proposing, we would be lucky to get it back in time for next deer season. Not to mention that I would like for him to get it on Christmas Day.

That's when I made an expensive comment to David's gunsmith: "What if we drilled and tapped the rail for a Weaver style base?"

"I can do that," said the gunsmith. "Only thing is, if we use a one-piece base, it will have to hang off behind the break-open breach." I thought about it for a minute and remembered that this is exactly how my Mossberg SSI single shot scope rail sits, and agreed to let him get started.

Still, Remington will hear from me! Not that I expect any satisfaction. I understand that other purchasers of this rifle have had the exact same problem. Obviously a case of too much vodka consumed by the machinest on the day these dovetails are milled (I'm not kidding; that's a problem in Russia). But if Remington is willing to put their name on the gun, then Remington should have some sense of quality control.

Fortunately, I know a lot about guns and had an idea of what to do. What about the beginner, who would never suspect that he had been sold a piece of crap. He would always think it was he who was doing something wrong.

Oh well, I knew it was a cheap gun when I bought it (that's the point), but I at least thought it would work!

What a crybaby.

What did you expect for something as cheap as this? You're wasting time whining about a crudely made Russian gun aimed at Wal-Mart shoppers. I don't see anywhere in your rant where Remington refused to correct the problem. ANYWHERE.

You're also busy whining about Remington's quality control while referring to a gun manufactured outside Remington.

I know I'm particularly glad I didn't have to read about any problems with Remington-branded toilet paper when I clicked on this link. That would've been kind of shitty.

Anyway, have some cheese with your WHINE.

I don't give a damn if the gun is made on the Moon and sells for $1.50! Remington stamped their name on it and sells it as their product, putting 150 years of reputation and customer service behind it. All I wanted to do was talk to a gun tech and find out how to fix this problem so I can still give the gun as a Christmas present, and instead got a typical customer service rep who simply gave us a mailing address (no phone number) and said "send it in".

Unfortunately, this gun pretty much represents a typical Remington product of the last 35 years -- a good place to start! Funny, Ruger can build a nice out-of-the-box product that functions. So can Savage, Howa, CZ, and even Mossberg. But with Remington, you have a starting place for additional gunsmithing. So it has been with every Remington rifle I have ever owned.

Simple and proper function should be job one for any company selling any product at any price.

I can understand your frustration at buying a product that needs fixing. But, Remington did say send it in. Even if a tech did tell you how to fix the problem, assuming the rails are miscut, would you have mill handy to recut them yourself? If you did, I doubt you'd be complaining.

If every Remington you've bought has been so bad, why buy another??? You like Mossberg, why not just buy one of their single shots?

The used market has some darn good bargains. That's where I look to when I want a higher grade product at a more affordable price.

Actually, I already own an SSI in 30-06. I took on a caribou hunt to the arctic last year and shot my boo. It is really a nice gun with nice wood and shoots really good (once I found the proper handload) Apparently, the company found some problem with this rifle and took it off the market for unspecified reasons.

I would not be so angry and frustrated if it were not for the time contraints and the fact that I read in other forums that other buyers of this rifle have had the exact same problem!

If this is a know problem, don't ship them!

Get some cheese with your WHINE yet?

This gun should never have been shipped (cheap or not). You are right to be pissed. As a gunsmith, I see more of this kind of crap from Remington, all the time. I wouldn't buy anything these days with their name on it. They're living on their name & that's quickly turning to crap.

You can't polish a turd. As for citing Remingtons as starting points as a basis for a custom you're right. All factory guns are. They all need to be machined and perfected. Custom actions are held to a tenth(that's .0001 since you're not a machinist) and actions like that cost more than several Russian junkers or a couple of 700's. Those actions too are starting points.

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
This gun should never have been shipped (cheap or not). You are right to be pissed. As a gunsmith, I see more of this kind of crap from Remington, all the time. I wouldn't buy anything these days with their name on it. They're living on their name & that's quickly turning to crap.

Whiner number two on deck. I suppose you girls will start lamenting the decline of High Point, Lorcin, and Jennings next.

quote:

Originally posted by Jackie Treehorn:

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
This gun should never have been shipped (cheap or not). You are right to be pissed. As a gunsmith, I see more of this kind of crap from Remington, all the time. I wouldn't buy anything these days with their name on it. They're living on their name & that's quickly turning to crap.

Whiner number two on deck. I suppose you girls will start lamenting the decline of High Point, Lorcin, and Jennings next.

You have a problem with your remington worship "studley". I wouldn't own a remington less than 10 years old. Not whining, just my experience as a gunsmith. I work on their shit every week. My shop won't even take one on trade anymore. Not whining, just stating the facts. I warn everyone to steer clear of them. Maybe it will help drive down the price so you can buy more (with your allowance). From your childish attitude, you & remmy deserve each other. Your photo shows it all though

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:

quote:

Originally posted by Jackie Treehorn:

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
This gun should never have been shipped (cheap or not). You are right to be pissed. As a gunsmith, I see more of this kind of crap from Remington, all the time. I wouldn't buy anything these days with their name on it. They're living on their name & that's quickly turning to crap.

Whiner number two on deck. I suppose you girls will start lamenting the decline of High Point, Lorcin, and Jennings next.

You have a problem with your remington worship "studley". I wouldn't own a remington less than 10 years old. Not whining, just my experience as a gunsmith. I work on their shit every week. My shop won't even take one on trade anymore. Not whining, just stating the facts. I warn everyone to steer clear of them. Maybe it will help drive down the price so you can buy more (with your allowance). From your childish attitude, you & remmy deserve each other. Your photo shows it all though

By you and the other whiner's "logic," the gun shop who sold the rifle bears some responsibility. You and Mary there seem to think Remington (it's R-E-M-I-N-G-T-O-N, Little Man, adults don't use ignorant slang terms) bears the responsibility for QA'ing an item produced in some Third World country. Therefore, the gun shop -- who sold the rifle -- is responsible for QA'ing junk on their shelves. At least that's how I understood you and GAHUNTER's WHINING. A gun shop should be responsible for anything that goes out their doors. Should they not? That's what you're stating.

If you won't "own" anything made by Remington within the last ten years, it's only because you're too much of a deadbeat to afford their products. I doubt they're shedding any tears or fretting over "losing" you as a "customer."

And yeah, your old lady likes my picture. Your mom and her told me they like their men like they like their coffee.

Enjoy your High Point.

Hey Stymie....

Good to see you back with a JOB.. or are you just out on parole?

What a buttwipe..

They like their men like their coffee. Ground up and in the freezer?

I happen to be a home builder. Even though I'm the builder, 99.99 percent of the work on one of my houses is done by subcontractors. I use subs from Mexico, Guadamala, France, Poland, Italy and Ukraine (in additon to America).

Now, who do you think is responsible in the hownowner's eyes when any of the work performed by these subs is substandard or fails? Not the sub, I tell you. Me! My only recourse is to either get the sub to fix it, or hire another sub to fix it. If it is a serious and ongoing problem, I will, of course, fire the sub and get another one.

Such it should be with Remington and Baikal. My research indicates that my problem has happened to other folks (click on the link and scroll down to Hillbill's first two posts.)
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,105544.0.html I also read another post on another forum with almost identical, but can't find the link right now.

Yes I realize that it is an inexpensive rifle, which is why I bought it. I build inexpensive "starter" houses in some subdivisions, but if a door won't close or the roof leaks, the neighbors don't tell the buyer "sorry, you should have bought a more expensive house." (which is what Treehorn is telling me) My point is, on something this glaring, I should have caught it before ever selling the house.

Simple intended function is a basic buyer's right, and if I didn't provide it, I'd expect to be critcized.

I suppose, with Christmas only a few days away, that you got the problem fixed?

I have no dog in this fight, but I've found that the Burris Signature rings with the offset inserts works wonders in getting the crosshair in the center without using up all the internal adjustments.

Not yet. If I am able to get it back before Christmas, it will be Monday. If he can't get to it, I will pick it up at the gunsmith's store on Monday ad give it to him on Christmas, and take it back on Wednesday.

The point is, he will for sure get it finished before he goes back to school in two weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
Now, who do you think is responsible in the hownowner's eyes when any of the work performed by these subs is substandard or fails? Not the sub, I tell you. Me! My only recourse is to either get the sub to fix it, or hire another sub to fix it. If it is a serious and ongoing problem, I will, of course, fire the sub and get another one.

Sort of like the sub contractor holding the buyer responsible when he doesn't get paid. (Meaning this is YOUR problem, not Remington's.)

You're pissing and moaning over a rather trivial gun. Jesus Christ. If it was an issue to you, why didn't you look it over carefully before you filled out the 4473? Why aren't you holding the shop who sold it to you responsible? Have you tried resolving the issue with them? (Most likely they told you to pack sand, as they rightfully should.)

Remington offered to fix it and that's the best they can do under the circumstances.

You're just a CRYBABY.

Since these things are NOT made in USA by Remington, I seriously doubt if the things get any sort of a quality-assurance inspection at all after arriving in the U.S.

However, I suspect if it were a Remington rifle made in USA that had a problem, they'd still ask you to send it in to them for inspection and repair.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Since these things are NOT made ins USA by Remington, I seriously doubt if the things get any sort of a quality-assurance inspection at all after arriving in the U.S.

However, I suspect if it were a Remington rifle made in USA that had a problem, they'd still ask you to send it in to them for inspection and repair.

And it's important to note that Remington MADE THE OFFER. But that's not good enough for this WHINER.

Should have bought a Handi Rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
Should have bought a Handi Rifle!

Yep, or a mossberg or a salvage etc etc. Any of them would be better than a remington

Just before the introduction of the Ultra Mags, the steady decline in Remington quality became glaringly apparent to anyone with the simple ability to compare and comprehend.

In the last few years, I have seen brand new Remingtons that could not even chamber a round, rifles with chambers/throats full of machine marks and some that couldn't put a bullet in the ocean if you were standing on the beach.

Remington used to stand for quality. Rifles such as the Varmint Special with the 24" heavy barrels shot exceptionally well out of the box and were about as problem-free a product as one will ever find.

Today, however, it's an entirely different story. I would not want to keep a new Remington even if it was free (I'd quickly trade it for something else, though!).

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Just before the introduction of the Ultra Mags, the steady decline in Remington quality became glaringly apparent to anyone with the simple ability to compare and comprehend.

So who compared and comprehended it for you?

Jackie -

You have contributed nothing to this discussion -- and I don't recall a single post where you have done anything other than your little horse and pony show.

By the way, after the horse and pony show, there's always one thing that's perfectly clear: there's a lot of crap to be found -- here in the form of your non-directional ramblings.

Grow up. Get a life. And try and learn a little something along the way...

quote:

Originally posted by Jackie Treehorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Just before the introduction of the Ultra Mags, the steady decline in Remington quality became glaringly apparent to anyone with the simple ability to compare and comprehend.

So who compared and comprehended it for you?

Hey "Buckwheat". It doesn't take a firearms engineer. Anyone with the mentality of a lobotomized artichoke can see it. They've tried to cut costs to the point of selling junk and it's coming back to bite them (and more importantly, their gun buyers) I think they've committed suicide. A rep. for poor quality stuff is hard to overcome. Too bad. They were once a great gun company.

Let's face it, the reason I'm angry is the timing of the situation. I also hate that the result of my conversation with customer service was completly predicted before we ever dialed the number. They are just like mega-companies everywhere.

As for Remington's quality control, I guess it depends on who Remington contracts to make the gun, and their (Remington's) responsibility ends right there. I would buy a 798 (Zastava --Serbia) before I'd buy a 700 (Remington -- USA), if I were actually planning on using the gun the way it came from the store. However, if I were in the market for a customized long-range sporter, then I'd buy a model 700, throw away the stock and barrel, and build from there (the 46-year-old Model 700 action design remains one of the most accurate actions with which to start a custom rifle). I was kinda hopin' that the workmanship and pride exhibited by the Yugoslavians at Zastava would translate to the Russians at Baikal (forgot to factor Vodka into the equation).

And if I had wanted a high dollar, high quality single shot, I'd have bought a Ruger No. 1 or a Dakota Model 10 (real high dollar!). Instead, I wanted something that would not be too painful a loss if it were stolen. (There's a story here: my other son at Auburn had his apartment broken into and lost his M-77 and his Beretta O/U shotgun.)

Now, I won't post on this subject again until I get the gun back and shoot it. Then I'll post pictures and handload results.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Jackie -

You have contributed nothing to this discussion -- and I don't recall a single post where you have done anything other than your little horse and pony show.

By the way, after the horse and pony show, there's always one thing that's perfectly clear: there's a lot of crap to be found -- here in the form of your non-directional ramblings.

Grow up. Get a life. And try and learn a little something along the way...

Bobby, Jackie is a Troll.You know the rule.Don`t feed the Trolls.I bet he was the fat little kid in school who always got picked on.In fact I doubt if he is much older than 12.

Always a troll around when you don't need them.

Steve E........

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
Let's face it, the reason I'm angry is the timing of the situation.

Which goes a LONG, LONG way towards explaining your INCESSANT WHINING.

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:

quote:

Originally posted by Jackie Treehorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Just before the introduction of the Ultra Mags, the steady decline in Remington quality became glaringly apparent to anyone with the simple ability to compare and comprehend.

So who compared and comprehended it for you?

Anyone with the mentality of a lobotomized artichoke can see it.

Don't be too hard on yourself. I won't discriminate against your kind.

I am going to throw my dog into this ring since I have sold, built , and repaired guns for a long time. The guy who bought this rifle said he knew a lot about guns-----really? What is there about a poorly built rifle that he didn't see? Price? Also, when Remington offered to fix the problem, they were doing all that they could under the circumstances. Your(his) decision to let another person fix the problem will no doubt render null and void any further responsibility of Remington. This may hopefully be the last problem, but I doubt that Remington will ever fix anything on this rifle again. Contrary to what someone said, "Remington" guns are not all junk, and his stupidity shows for having said that. Get over it Bub, cause your inability to wait for a proper resolution is your own fault. Cheers!

hey jackie,

have you heard about the other van? loaded with one 12 gauge double and 30 feet of rope...ready to make the drive to oklahoma any day...

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

why wouldn't the gunshop where he bought it just give him another one ??

or refund his money. guess they don't care about their customer either.

or is that too easy a solution ?

if he had charged it on a credit card the seller would have to take it back .

Hey Jackie,

You weren't a breast fed baby were you! I had heard that bottle fed infants tend to develop 'ocular chanellitis'. It is a condition where the patient has a channel between the eyeball and the asshole which gives him a shitty outlook on life. You should all play nice.

Merry Christmas.

Hey Jackie'
Why don't you pack up your electro shock therapy hairdo, your n*&^%r, F*&^%d up attitude
along with your Hillary Clinton point of view and get the hell off of this forum. You are nothing but a P.O.S. Nobody wants to hear that B.S. from a piece Of S*&T like you. You look like you are stoned out of your gord on PCP or some s*&t. I bet you are on parole for being a pedofile or something close to that. F*&k Off.

Tony, why don't you tell us how you really feel?

quote:

Originally posted by Jackie Treehorn:

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Since these things are NOT made ins USA by Remington, I seriously doubt if the things get any sort of a quality-assurance inspection at all after arriving in the U.S.

However, I suspect if it were a Remington rifle made in USA that had a problem, they'd still ask you to send it in to them for inspection and repair.

And it's important to note that Remington MADE THE OFFER. But that's not good enough for this WHINER.

No you ASSHOLE, the point is it would not be fixed and available for his son to receive it as the Christmas present it is supposed to be so he can use it to hunt with.
Can you get that through that small .177" BB you call a brain?
Instead of coming on the forums and ggiving people who know better a bad time, why don't you just go home and tell your mama she's calling you?
Paul B.
To the other people on this thread, my apologies. I dislike getting nasty with people, but this guy needs either a time out or better yet, stand in the corner for an hour.
P.B.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Jackie -

You have contributed nothing to this discussion -- and I don't recall a single post where you have done anything other than your little horse and pony show.

By the way, after the horse and pony show, there's always one thing that's perfectly clear: there's a lot of crap to be found -- here in the form of your non-directional ramblings.

Grow up. Get a life. And try and learn a little something along the way...

Bobby, it's a DOG & pony show!!

First off the gun shop should have should have offered to make it right:refund or replace the gunshops have to offer service since they can't compete with big box stores. anything bought retail at any price should work as descibed regaurdless of cost if your not going to do a scope rail right leave it off if its there it ought to be right. If remington puts there name on it they should stand behind it period, they boast of 190+years in business you would think they would want to keep a good rep. That being said with an inexpensive American made single shot that has proven rock solid reliability [handi-rifle] Why buy something made offshore? Jackie If We wanted a bunch of s#%t we'd be talking to our wives come back when your off you period
Roy

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
why wouldn't the gunshop where he bought it just give him another one ??

or refund his money. guess they don't care about their customer either.

or is that too easy a solution ?

if he had charged it on a credit card the seller would have to take it back .

Easy? Sure, but it's so much more fun to WHINE.