I would like a takedown rifle that is accurate & powerful for deer. I think that a G2 rifle in 30-40 would be ideal. Nobody seems to chamber this cartridge for that rifle.

Also, what do you think of the new G2's stregnth. By looking at how a Contender handles pressure (the "L" shaped breech face), the extra metal on the sides has to add more resistance to flexing. I know T/C does not rate it for any more, but is there any other word out there?

I have a 30-40 Krag in Contender pistol. I've killed elk with it, it's very accurate and I like it.......

That said, I would not recommend the 30-40 for a Contender or a G2.... The case is tapered and the rim is very large.... It is a perfect cartridge for stretching your frame if you load it hot.

I suspect that the AI version with it's straighter case walls would be safer. But it would also be easy to overload the frame if you didn't watch yourself..

You might consider a 30-30 Ackley Improved... That's a great cartridge for the Contender and G2 and it is an impressive improvement on the 30-30.

John

I wrote to T/C regarding this chambering in the G1, a chambering then (still?) offered by SSK. They didn't feel it appropriate.

This question came up on another forum. One fellow there believes the G2 frame is more of a cosmetic change (to make it look like the Encore) than a needed strengthing. He claimed the weak link in the Contender is the lock up, not the frame, and I have a hunch he is correct. I really wish I'd bought a flat sided G1 frame. I can't seem to warm up to the new style. My "engraved" G1 will soldier on.

I urge you to write T/C to see if the G2 can take the Krag. Maybe they'll say "yes." You can also write to SSK asking why they think it ok when T/C shies away from it.

Karl

Thanks for the responses. I can't help think that the G2 is stronger than the G1. People are shooting high pressure 416 Rigbys out of the Encore. If you look at it proportionally, a 416 in an Encore vs a Krag in a G2...It should handle a 30-06!.

As to taper, I have a hard time grasping that one. I mean, if a straight sided case gripps the chamber, how does a blowback 9m/m operate?

I don't buy into the case-grip theory either, but I do think the .30-40 is pushing it a bit. For what it's worth, the .416 Rigby is a medium pressure round, with the same pressure rating as the Krag (based on the CIP standards). The G2 frame may be stronger but are the locking lugs and their recesses scaled as well? This part of the design did not change from G1. Anyway, I'm sure SSK will make you a barrel. I'd approach max. Krag loads with caution.

I do not think that the locking lugs on a T/C have much to do with handling pressure. They just keep the action from becoming unhindged. I think that in theory (ONLY!) you could remove the locking mech., and fire a cartridge just by holding the action shut with your hands.

I recommend you do not test that theory.

The shoulders of the cartridge push forward on the barrel with nearly full chamber pressure. To engrave the bullet into the rifling takes thousands of psi of pressure, and this is also trying to move the barrel forward. The hinge pin resists this forward push, but the hinge pin is below the line of the bore. Therefore, firing pressures are acting to torque the action open around the hinge pin. The locking lugs resist this troque by applying a downward push on the barrel underlug.

Without underlugs, the action breaks open on firing, with not pretty results. One of the reasons T/C dropped the G1 was to get the safety interlocks from the Encore into the Contender. These interlocks are meant to ensure the action cannot fire unless the lugs have engaged.

My Contender is still at Customs, so I can't take dimensions off the lock-up, but I reckon the shear force being taken by the locking lugs would be on the order of 1000 lb with a Krag. I doubt your hands could hold the action shut.

I appreciate the discusion. I may take look at the Encore. I have never seen one in person; I was assuming they are big/heavy. Doug

Doug,

I'm having the same search as you for a G2 carbine. I'm leaning towards a 250 Sav or 25 Bullberry Imp or possbily a 7-30 Waters with a 22" barrel. I'm trying for under 7 lbs with a Leupold 2-7x compact.

I have 3 Encores in rifle and pistol config and love 'em all. The 7mm-08 has a 15" pistol barrel and shoots 1-1/2" groups off the bench. With a 20 - 22" barrel it would make a fine carry rifle. I just got a 24" Bullberry barrel for 6.5mm-06 Imp for which I'm fireforming cases now. It weights 8 lbs 13 Oz and is really pretty handy. Encores are great rifles, but be VERY CAREFUL!!!!.....they are addictive!!

OBTW, my 45 cal front stuffer will shoot 2-4" 3 shot groups at 100 yds with two Triple Seven pellets and 180 grain 40 cal hollow points in a sabot. My son shot 2 does last fall with it at 60 - 70 yrds and both fell where shot. Oh....then there is a slug barrel too.

DougH9: Again, I suggest you write T/C a letter. I am not certain the locking lugs are the weak link in the Contenders. Perhaps the new G2 frame will allow the action to take the Krag. Writing is the only way to find out what T/C thinks.

Writing to SSK is also a good idea. Let's say the lugs are the weak link. T/C may not want to invest in the steels and heat treatment to improve this, but SSK might be doing so.

My G1 Carbine is a joy to carry. I do not want to push you to an Encore, for you may not need that extra heft. There are some smaller diameter European cartridges that might work for you.

There is a straight wall 9.3x72R for which brass and dies are readily available. It has the diameter of the .30-30 class cases. With the chamber throated long, this baby should get you near .358 performance but at pressures a bit below the .30-30. There is also a 7x72R based on the same case which will take you beyond the 7-30 waters, approaching a Krag, say 175 gn a bit below 2300 fps. Bullberry I'm sure would be happy to chamber a 26" tube for either of these. Huntington's has the brass and dies.

If you're into wildcats, this x72R brass will easily give you more case capacity than the Krag but with the diameter of a .30-30. That will surely allow you to get Krag performance in your Contender.

My point is, this class of rifle is good for more than it is given credit for, but it certainly has its limits.

I will do some inquireing. I see that EA Brown chambers for the Krag (in an Encore).

Thanks for the ideas about using narrow, long Euro brass. I can see that with those you could get 308 (ish) power out of a G2. But, I am kinda stuck on the Krag. It is the classic American single shot hunting cartrige for me. Plus, I already have a 1898 Sprg. and dies/brass. I once handled an '85 Wincester in that cal. Very nice.

I've got a Krag barrel made by Mike Bellm, one of the most accurate barrels I've ever seen. I shoot sane loads, same you would shoot in a Krag rifle. No problems...but there seems to be a lot of smoke blown above about it. If you want a Krag, get one. But there are better choices, best choice being 30-30 improved. My only beef with the Krag is the brass isn't all that long lasting even with moderate loads.

regards,
graycg

quote:

Krag is the brass isn't all that long lasting even with moderate loads

Perhaps that should be telling you something. Even back in the late '60s, Ken Waters could report that Krag brass was long lasting, even in a rear locking 1895 Win. With all the legal hassles today, I sincerely doubt brass has gotten weaker since then.