Can anyone tell me anything out of the ordinary about the round? Im considering having a barrel done by marlin for my H&R ultra just for fun and something new to tinker with. It seems to be a cheap way for a new toy. I have researched the case a little and i like the looks of it. Im wondering if the H&R is throated deep enough for longer bullets. Anyone have one of these. they claim the 22 inch barrel gives it a little better performance. What bullets do you prefer?

you might want to get the haevy barrel

If it's anything like the .45-70 barrels, it will be short throated. As far as ballistics, the .45-70 and .450 Marlin are twins, there's no advantage to the .450 Marlin in a Handi/Ultra the brass just costs more and factory ammo ain't cheap either. If you're not a handloader, you probably aren't gonna like shooting factory ammo in it, there have been a lot of .450 Marlin barrels offered for sale at Graybeard cuz of the recoil. Factory ammo for the .45-70 is wide ranging in power, so it can be shot as hot or hotter than the .450 or mild as milk toast.

quote:

Originally posted by Hairtrigger:
you might want to get the haevy barrel

They only offer one barrel, no choice. It'll be their standard taper, same as the .45-70.

I dont know what the twist rate would be but i guess you couldnt shoot too heavy of a bullet anyway. Ive seen load data up to 400 grain. I would think you could load the 450 down also. i dont know why but i prefer the case design on the 450 over the old 45-70.

Does graybeard have a classifieds? About what are the barrels selling for?

Twist rate is 1:20", same as the .45-70. Yup, if you handload, you can load it down easily. Graybeard has an NEF/H&R Classified forum, they're still having server issues and sometimes you can't get it open, they're working with the host to resolve the problem, but it may take a software upgrade to fix the problem. Barrels sell for $60-$100 depending on the caliber and if they have sights or not.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/index.php?c=12

STW-fan
I have a Ultra Hunter in .450 Marlin. It a handfull off the bench. In the field I don't notice the recoil, But working up loads was a pain in the @$$! If I had to do it over I would go with a 45/70. Brass is 1/3rd the price and you can load it up to .450 loads!
338vt

Why did you have a hard time working up the loads?I see they make it in 500s&w too.

quote:

Originally posted by STW_fan:
Why did you have a hard time working up the loads?I see they make it in 500s&w too.

Because load work is done from the bench and the recoil is substantial!! I highly recommend filling the stock bolt hole with lead shot or a lead filled pipe for bench work. I also put a Limbsaver recoil pad on my 45-70s and 45-120, and wear a Past Magnum recoil shield, too!! I also try to sit as vertical as possible so I'm not leaning into the recoil. This takes higher rest placement, but work well if you can manage it.

I use a 200 lb son to shoot off the bench...so the recoil doesn't bother me at all...if he flinches, I smack him in the back of the head!!

Actually, I have shot about 150 rounds off the bench and it does get old after 20 rounds or so. The Limbsaver pad is wonderful!!

So as not to offend .45-70 folks, I bought the .450 Marlin because it is really a .458 American which I have always wanted. It is more gun than I need and I suspect it is more gun than MOST folks need too....but ...it is fun to play with. #1 son has killed 2 deer with it and it worked fine...2 shots, 2 dead deer.

wrongtarget
Thats putting it mildly.
Most loads were developed in the marlin 18.5 in. ported tube.(16in.barrel).
My Ultra Hunter will get 2250 with 400gr.Speer flat points. (Out of it's 20in tube)
The load I hunt with is nowear near that.
338vt

The 458 american is why i was interested too. Like he said no offense on the 45-70 thing but i just never have been a fan. What is the difference in the limbsaver pad and say a good pachmayr decelerator?

Sorry STW fan,

I can't compare the decelerator to the Limbsaver, but it seems the Limbsaver is a lot softer than any other pad I've used. It seeded too mushy to me at first, but it didn't take many shot for me to favor it by a long way.

Maybe the new Limbsaver dampener on my bow is influencing me (I love it too) but I sure think it works well on the .450 Marlin.

Just a point of interest...has anyone tried 45 cal sabots and 40 cal pistol bullets in the .450 Marlin case? I'm thinking about playing with that combo this winter...just to see if it is a viable load.

45 sabots in my marlin .45-70 would be a fun expirement too. Thank you for the evil thought!

Rusty,

Let us know how the sabots work...I'll do the same.

I know this is an old thread but thought I would add my 2 cents. Brass life is very good. I have cases that I loaded three times with full house 420grn hard cast in and I lost track of how many "plinking" loads with 405 cast loads.

Sincerely,

AL

I own a Bolt Action rifle chambered for the .458 X 2" AMERICAN and as someone pointed out; this was the cartridge the .450 Marlin was based. It has a wider belt though. In my .458 X 2" I shoot a mild load of 42.0 Grs/ IMR-4198/ 300 grain Hollow Point Bullet. Velocity is a little under 2,000 FPS but the recoil is about like a 20 gauge shotgun. With full loads using a 400 or 350 grainer it is a REAL KICKER!

I have a Remington 600 chambered in 458x2 American and find it fun to shoot. I just cut off 7mm Mag
brass to make 458x2. There is a damn good reason that 450 Marlin has a thicker belt than the standard magnum case. It keeps you from firing say a 450 Marlin in a 7mm Mag. That would be exciting! Also, hopefully if you put say a 6.5 Remington Mag round into a 450 Marlin it may not go off saving you from trying to extract a
possibly split 6.6 Mag case from your Marlin. There have to be safeguards for unknowing or stupid people.

I also use the lighter loads for my 458x2 in my 458 Win Mag when I just want to pop a badger or a coyote.

If you are recoil sensitive or are not a reloader, the 45/70 may be a better choice. I think it is nuts that the 450 Marlin brass costs so much. This high cost has kept me from re-reaming the belt on my 458x2 to accept 450 Marlin. I'll keep cutting down 7mm Mag brass. And no, I will not accidentally shoot a 458x2 in my 358 Norma.
I've got over 40 rifles and I still check the chamber marking on the barrel with the ammo I am carrying.

As for recoil, get a rifle with a reasonably heavy and long barrel. If you buy a lightweight 18" barreled Marlin, then don't cry about the recoil. A 12 GA seems to have more recoil.

Old Elk Hunter , I have also use 7 mm Rem. Mag brass for forming .458 X 2" cases. .300 Winchester Mags work fine too. My Rifle doesn't have a recoil pad and weighs around 7 pounds. It is a very handy rifle, and I currently have a 2.5 power scope mounted on it. The light loads with the 300 grainer are fun to shoot and very effective on Deer. You'r 110% correct about the .450's recoil being not as bad as a 12 gauge slug load! My Ithaca M-37 featherweight kicks like a .460 Weatherby at the bench! Three shots and that's enought for me!!

The 45-70 has a couple more grains case capacity than the 450 Marlin. Winchester brass has the most capacity of the 45-70 cases to my knowledge. The 450 Marlin is really nothing but a gimic. The only nich I see for it is in the Winchester 94 lever action, because the 450 Marlin is the largest cartridge that will fit in that action. The 94 is too narrow for the 45-70. The 450 Marlin will fit in a short action bolt gun, but you might as well build a 458 mag and have the ability to load it up and down. If you want a 450 Marlin go for it. I dought any guns or ammo will be available for it in 5 to 10 years.

quote:

The 450 Marlin is really nothing but a gimic

You can have a 100 yd head start.....nah!!...that wouldn't be fair.

The 450 Marlin and the .45-70 are both fine rounds. Let's let them live out their lives in peace.

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
The 45-70 has a couple more grains case capacity than the 450 Marlin. Winchester brass has the most capacity of the 45-70 cases to my knowledge. The 450 Marlin is really nothing but a gimic. The only nich I see for it is in the Winchester 94 lever action, because the 450 Marlin is the largest cartridge that will fit in that action. The 94 is too narrow for the 45-70. The 450 Marlin will fit in a short action bolt gun, but you might as well build a 458 mag and have the ability to load it up and down. If you want a 450 Marlin go for it. I dought any guns or ammo will be available for it in 5 to 10 years.

Well, no, it's not a gimic. It was designed, as Marlin and Hornady admit, so that people could have upper level 45-70 performance in a factory round. ALL factory produced 45-70(excluding Buffalo bore and Garret which are specialty rounds) are limited to 28,000 cup. That is because that is all a trapdoor is good for. It's wide belt is to keep it from being pushed in to a 45-70, or any other belted mag for that case. As far as no guns being offered for it in 5 to 10 years, you might want to call Marlin and tell them your prediction.

quote:

Originally posted by Neverflinch:

Well, no, it's not a gimic. It was designed, as Marlin and Hornady admit, so that people could have upper level 45-70 performance in a factory round. ALL factory produced 45-70(excluding Buffalo bore and Garret which are specialty rounds) are limited to 28,000 cup. That is because that is all a trapdoor is good for. It's wide belt is to keep it from being pushed in to a 45-70, or any other belted mag for that case. As far as no guns being offered for it in 5 to 10 years, you might want to call Marlin and tell them your prediction.

Perhaps you should call Marlin and Hornady and check the 450's sales. It doesn't look good. I think if Hornady had offered 300 and 400 grain heavy loads along with the 350 grain load to begin with, the cartridge Might have had a chance. I think too little too late.

Did Marlin and Hornady relase their sales figures to you? Why don't you just tell me what they are? Eliminate the leg work on my part. Anyway I could care less, I love mine and have all the brass I will ever need for it.

I believe that the .450 Marlin would be abit more popular if available in a standard over-the-counter bolt action rifle. The .45-70 will never be replaced by the .450 Marlin in a lever action or single shot. Frankly, I am supprised no company has come out with a bolt action in this caliber.

Garretts and buffalo bore are factory ammo!They are made in a factory!

Never said they weren't factory rounds, said they were specialty ammo. They are designated for use in only certain firearms, hence specialty.

Two things:

There is a new round out for the 450 from Hornady-it is a 325gr Lever Evolution round with the squishy tip.

Also, Steyr is going to have a bolt action in 450 Marlin, it is on their ProHunter action. I fondled one at the SHOT Show. It was sweet!!
They throated it so you could shoot the 500gr bullets if you want!

Edited to add if you saw Garrett's and Buffalo Bore's operation, I would bet you wouldn't think of factory. They are both small loaders who generally hand load or use small automated machines. Not my idea of a "factory". Not that their products aren't any good, but they don't have lawyers who make them play by the rules.

Steyr makes fine guns, but they are a little spendy.

I'd like to see a Savage 110 switch barrel option in 22" available for under $200 so I can play with the round a bit. I know, it is just a .458 American with a fat belt and that is what makes it neat...I always wanted one!!

quote:

ALL factory produced 45-70(excluding Buffalo bore and Garret which are specialty rounds) are limited to 28,000 cup. That is because that is all a trapdoor is good for. It's wide belt is to keep it from being pushed in to a 45-70, or any other belted mag for that case.

So what you mean is "all SAAMI spec ammo"? Why all cap "all" if it is not all? I thought the reason to argue factory ammo is because non-reloaders want it. Now is it just about non-reloaders who want commercial ammo made in a big factory instead of a smaller maker like Garrett, Buffalo Bore, CorBon, Georgia Arms, Quality Cartridge, etc. Are you sure it was the lawyers and not the Hornaday sales reps that wanted the fat belt? Can you guess how many BigBore regulars may visit this thread and laugh at us?

The best case for the 450M is in a magazine gun. No problem for the single shot buyer who may want to get a bolt gun in the same thing later on. And you never have to worry about that idiot wildcatter next to you stealing your brass. And you can buy top-quality ammo from Hornaday.

And it is cool to get one because you just want one.

If personal taste did not drive this industry, we would all have a 12 gauge, a 22lr, a 30.06 and pretty much nothing else.

Sorry STW, didn't mean to stray from your questions, they are pretty much answered. Maybe 338vt can say more about heavy bullets. I have a standard pad on my handi, but I filled the stock with shot after starting to use the Ultra Slug barrel for turned brass and 900 grain pills. It balances those heavy barrels pretty well. Used a Kik-eez on my #3 and it works well but is easy to damage.

Get the barrel and enjoy.

quote:

Originally posted by 45LCshooter:
So what you mean is "all SAAMI spec ammo"? Why all cap "all" if it is not all? I thought the reason to argue factory ammo is because non-reloaders want it. Now is it just about non-reloaders who want commercial ammo made in a big factory instead of a smaller maker like Garrett, Buffalo Bore, CorBon, Georgia Arms, Quality Cartridge, etc.

Is there a store that you know of that you can walk in and buy Garrett, Buffalo Bore, Corbon, Georgia Arms....etc.? And if there is, is it not marked clearly on the box do not use in older firearms? Still an accident waiting to happen for some 18 year old who just inherited grandpa's rifle.

quote:

Are you sure it was the lawyers and not the Hornaday sales reps that wanted the fat belt?

Don't remember saying anything about Lawyers.

quote:

Can you guess how many BigBore regulars may visit this thread and laugh at us?

No. Can you tell me? Can you guess on a scale of 1 to 10 how much I care if anyone comes and laughs at this thread? I'll give you a hint, it's less than 2.

quote:

i dont know why but i prefer the case design on the 450 over the old 45-70.

Must be the belt...... A 1/20 twist will stabilize up to at least the 500-grain RN or flat point (it's the length, not the weight, that matters here.)

Oh, the WalMart defense; I get it....

quote:

Originally posted by DRS:
I believe that the .450 Marlin would be abit more popular if available in a standard over-the-counter bolt action rifle. The .45-70 will never be replaced by the .450 Marlin in a lever action or single shot. Frankly, I am supprised no company has come out with a bolt action in this caliber.

You are correct that no one has produced an over-the-counter bolt gun in .450M. Winchester did have them available out of their custom shop in the past, but they weren't inexpensive. Clark Custom built them for a couple of years on Mdl. 70 and Ruger 77 actions. I got one on a Ruger 77 and love it. Laminated stock, fully bedded Shilen barrel, great trigger, etc. I took it to Namibia last fall and took a nice kudu using the factory loads. I've experimented with all manner of loads for it, but have yet to find one that is a better all-around performer than the factory offering. There are better loads for specific purposes, but none that are better for a "grab it and go" round. I'm interested in seeing what the new Hornady soft tips will do, but have yet to see them in my area.