I just ordered a T/C Custom Shop .30-30 Contender 20" carbine with a
stainless complexion. I have loaded for the venerable .30-30 in a Win M94 and a 10" T/C Contender. The 10" T/C (old production) was the most frustrating T/C barrel I had ever experienced and I dumped it.

Anyway, I guess I have several different question/issues to discuss:

1. Curious load data in the Sierra Handgun Manual. Like all good reloaders, I have quite a few manuals, but I've never seen this before. Sierra lists data for 10" and 14" barrels. Commonly, the max load for the 14" barrel is higher than the 10". The 14" max load is never lower than the 10" barrel. Now this could just be differences in the test barrels, right? My thinking is that the max pressure has got be be within first few inches, so why does a longer barrel have a higher max load. Makes no sense to me.

2. Lever gun loads vs. T/C loads. The max pressure for the M94 (SAAMI) is 36k CUP. The maximum pressure for the .30-30 case in the T/C Contender is around 45k PSI (per Mike Bellm's website.) I know there is no exact or consistent conversion between these two units, but me thinks that 45k PSI is a bit higher than 36k CUP. I presume this means that I can theoretically load the T/C higher than the M94 data.

3. Using 375 Win brass. I know that 375 brass is thicker and can be used to form various .30-30 based cases. What is the likelihood that I would have to turn necks on a Custom Shop barrel? Mike says 375 cases can usually be loaded around 48k PSI in the Contender. I was trying to figure out the mechanics here. First, I thought the thinner .30-30 cases would expand easier and grip the chamber walls sooner than the thicker 375 cases. But what I infer that the primary concern here is the thickness at the case web. Both cases grip the chamber walls equally? The 375 case stretches less and produces less back thrust at a given chamber pressure, right? But the drawback is that the 375 has less internal volume, therefore, will reach max pressure sooner than the .30-30. Should I use thin .30-30 brass or thick .375 brass. My goal is to push 150 grains at 2,500 fps, or will I have to settle for 2,400?

~~~ Lars ~~~

You'll have to settle for 2300 fps unless you have a "fast" barrel. I have both the Win. M94 and Contender carbine (21"). I have fired the 10 and 14 inch Contenders (but don't and won't own one). The following rules of thumbs seem to apply.

Fastest in the long barrel is almost always fastest in the short barrel. Loads can NOT be pushed up compared to the M94.

A fellow named Steve Dyess took a factory .30-30 barrel and after load development (which did NOT exceed published data) re-chambered to .30-30 AI. He could just barely get 2500 with the 150 but case expansion was too great. .375 Winchester brass was not a benefit.

I also load for other .30-30 family cartridges (.25-35, 7-30 Waters, .30 Herrett, .30-30, and .38-55) and preliminary experimentation with .375 brass convinced me that any limited benefit was far outweighed by case forming problems. IOW, forming cases wasn't worth my time. There was no improved performance to speak of.

Personally, I use the 170 in the .30-30 and load so that all ammo can be used in both platforms. With 30 gr. IMR 3031 and Hornady's 170 FP I get a true 2100 fps and with the .307 Sierras I get 2200 fps. In these guns I can't get more than 2350 fps with any 150 gr.

You can negate the low velocity in some small measure by loading the Speer Mag-Tip (which works best in my short throat Contender and the M94). Downrange performance is much better than any 150 gr. RN bullet.

[ 04-18-2003, 04:16: Message edited by: Hobie ]

max loads in the 14" are likely listed as higher than the 10" because the extra powder in the 10" tube really doesn't do anything for you.

In other words, max pressures theoretically would be the same - their max recommended load for the 10" could be a "max practical load". If you shot the 14" data in a 10" bbl I'm sure it would be safe, but it might be erratic performance because of more/slower powder not being burned in the tube.

Re the 375 - turning the neck will likely be dependent on how tight the fox ridge bbl is - but I doubt you'll need to do it. Keep in mind that the overall interior volume will be slightly less (because the brass is thicker) so work up to max with caution.

Have fun.

[ 04-19-2003, 00:20: Message edited by: NRC ]

I have taken the Barnes 140 XBT to 2600 fps in a 22" NEF with no pressure signs. W748 with WW cases CCI 250 primers and .040 from lands of rifling. Under 1" groups and a good whitetail load. The 130 XBT and 130 Hornady will get good velocity as well.

I don't check here often so email me at chainsaw@netnet.net if you have any questions about my loadings.

Chainsaw,

If you're getting 2600 fps, THAT'S a pressure sign!

Can't say that I'm a fan of the X bullets but to each his own. Also, the NEF is NOT the Contender.

Hobie wrote,

<Chainsaw,

If you're getting 2600 fps, THAT'S a pressure sign!

Can't say that I'm a fan of the X bullets but to each his own. Also, the NEF is NOT the Contender.>

Hobie, The pressure ring expansion ring shows NO increase in expansion at 2600fps versus what the factory loaded 30-30's show. 2700fps per second on the reloads shows a clear increase in pressure on the expansion ring testing that I have done. I have quit at the 2600fps level. Notice also that I'm using the 140 grain and also the 130 grain spire points. I can't get nowhere near that with the 150 grain FN's without excessive pressure.

If one looks at the NEF vs. Contender the NEF has more barrel steel at the chamber and a solid steel receiver that is used to chamber rounds like the .308 that is 52,000CUP. Does the Contender fire 52,000 CUP loads?---------Chainsaw

[ 04-23-2003, 02:26: Message edited by: Chainsaw ]

Chainsaw,

Just yankin' your chain. No bullet goes out the bore without pressure. Of course I know you meant no sign of excessive pressure.

Now as to the X bullets. I AM surprised that you're getting that performance safely but only because MY experience with X bullets is that pressures are higher. So, I'd expect (based on MY experience) 2500 fps or so with the 140 gr. X NOT 2600 fps. That doesn't mean that I doubt you. After all you're shooting an entirely different rifle! Things are bound to be different. I also believe that the 2 systems handle the pressures, ummm, differently. Although the actions have some similarities, the NEF is used for some real high pressure cartridges, certainly ones that exceed .30-30 factory pressures.

The Contender, which I use, tops out at factory pressure levels. Note that the topic starter is using a CONTENDER. So, just how does your experience actually apply to his situation?

Hobie wrote, <The Contender, which I use, tops out at factory pressure levels. Note that the topic starter is using a CONTENDER. So, just how does your experience actually apply to his situation?>

You are completely right about that. I should have taken that into consideration and stayed out of the thread. My mistake completely.

The two rifles I load for with 130 and 140 X bullets differ quite a bit in the loads that they use to achieve the velocity stated. The velocity will vary as to the season and will run at 2575 to 2635 depending if ifred in warm vs cold weather.-----Chainsaw

Chainsaw,

I was trying to not be rude. As I re-read my post, I don't think I did that. If I've offended, I apologize.

I have to say that I've not experienced that much difference in performance with W748 in the temperature range we have here. What differences are you talking about? 80 - -40 degrees F?

i bought my 1st contender about a year ago and have been working with 30-30,7-30 and 375win primarly for deer hunting. i do not think any 1 can really tell presure readings for a contender carbinr.. the factoey load for the 7-30 gives flater primers then a load that greybeard says is too hot. ever very hot load's cases fall out whrn the rifle is turned upside down.. for the 30-30 i use the max sierra book load of h4895 & rl 15 with a sierra flat base 150ge bullet.it chrono's under 2300 fps in my rifle.

if you want more power you should try a 375win it is a really neat round and makes a big hole..

Hobie, the temperature range I have experienced is -10 degrees to 90 degrees. I try and shoot whenever I can so I work up loads mainly with the temps around 0-30 degrees, cause that is what I normally hunt in. I have had some higher velocity when shooting at around 90. I should actually be enjoying an adult beverage when it is that temp, instaed of shooting, but I like shooting.

As far as being offended, I have a thick skin and wasn't offended. You were right and I appreciate you pointing that out to me. No problem from my end.
Regards --------Chainsaw