I've been messing with Contenders for about 6 years now. One thing that plagues me is that every time I have tried a carbine I have found it to be less accurate than my pistols. So far I've had a Bellm rechambered .22 Magnum (still have), a 21" Factory 7-30 Waters (gone), aand a VVCG 7mmx30-30AI(gone). None of these barrels have consistently shot less than 1.5" IN MY HANDS. I spent a lot of money sending that VVCG back to them for testing and they sent me targets with .5-.6" groups. I used their load data and got 1.5". I can consistently shoot sub-MOA groups with my Contender handguns but put a buttstock on them (for testing/comparison purposes only)and they go south. I use the hanger bar system on both the handguns and carbines.

Me too. All my 10" handgun barrels for my contender are ungodly accurate. Thinking it would be nice to have a small, accurate carbine, I bought a rifle length 30-30 barrel. I would say it doesn't shoot a whole lot better than a Win. 94. I have tried tightening (snugging) only one screw in the forestock instead of both screws. This seemed to help a bit, but I still cannot get good, consistent accuracy out of the 30-30 barrel like I can out of the 10" barrels.

I have several combinations of Contender carbines both G2 and originals. Bullberry, VVCG and factory barrels all are capable of shooting prairie dogs out to 350 plus yards ...farther in 'no wind' conditions. I put them together specifically for this purpose and they serve it well. There are some little things that tend to make them shoot quite well including fore end setup, handloading/headspace setup, gun rests.
you said
" I spent a lot of money sending that VVCG back to them for testing and they sent me targets with .5-.6" groups."
Back when they were in biz they shot many thousands of groups with all kinds of barrels....I am suggesting they had alot of experience and knew exactly how to setup the gun to provide excellent groups. It probably can be done.

skb--
Would you care to go in to a little more detail on what steps you have used to get best accuracy from the carbines. My experience mirrors that of the other posters. Thanks for any specifics you can provide.
Mike

Getting Contender carbine barrels to produce surgical accuracy is really no big secret. Items cush as a Bellm oversized hinge pin and a hanger bar setup for your forend will probably do more to tighten your groups and make them more consistent than anything else. Both play key roles in barrel harmonics, and obviously there's more barrel to a carbine that needs to be dealt with than opposed to a pistol-length tube, which is shorter and more rigid and thus has the edge for potentially better accuracy (but that ABSOLUTELY doesn't mean a carbine barrel will be inferior in terms of accuracy). Also, while it may not fit the conventional school of thought when targeting rifles, Contender carbines tend to perform best when the bags are nearly touching the trigger guard. Encores, on the other hand, seem to prefer the bags more centered with the forend.

Make sure you are using a pistol frame and test fire your carbine barrel with a pistol grip.
A lot of accuracy problems come from leaning on the butt stock with your face.

smike308 - My current two project rifles are strictly for the prairie these are dedicated prairie dog rifles. My son and I have some great private land to shoot prairie dogs on pretty much anytime we would like.....bolt rifles got boring.
One is a .204 Ruger factory barrel on a G2 frame. I am convinced that freefloating the foreend is essential so this one gets a small fitted washer over a very small 'o ring' just right to fit around the foreend screws between the foreend and barrel to hold the factory foreend a given spacing from the barrel for its length. The gun is set up with medium height Redfield rings on a Leupold one piece base...four screw factory. This holds a Mueller 3.5 x 10 44 MM scope. The factory buttstock on a G2 is better designed to accomodate scopes and still provide a excellent cheek weld. This gun sports a Harris benchtop bipod and with my sons 12 year old eyes is capable of "minute of prairie dog" beyond the average Joe with a bolt rifle (in excess of 350 yds.). Trigger spring was only slightly lightened for let off...otherwise it is an over the counter gun.

The other rifle is a 2nd generation Contender with a VVCG barrel, 6mm 30-30 AI carbine length with a custom cut chamber. It wears an excellent piece of walnut made up from Bullberry for the buttstock that provides perfect scope acquisition. I made up my own flat bottom foreend using litgum vitae that is freefloated using a hanger bar setup. I have a Weaver style base, 6 screw with Burris z rings holding a Bushnell 10X40 fixed power Mil-dot scope. This gun we shoot off a bench bag up close to the frame and small bag in the rear. For performance it gives up little of nothing to my 22-250 bolt rifle.
I handload all of my ammo which for any breakaction gun is nearly mandatory for precision accuracy. I use the headspace techniques I learn from Mike Bellms website as well as many helpful ideas from the likes of Bobby Tomek here and a host of others.
All of my contenders tend to shoot best with loaded ammo of max OAL coming just short of the rifling (.010")if possible.

quote:

this one gets a small fitted washer over a very small 'o ring' just right to fit around the foreend screws between the foreend and barrel to hold the factory foreend a given spacing from the barrel for its length

Does the washer go against the barrel or the fore end?

What is a hanger bar?

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions & tips. I will give the freefloating a try tomorrow. The handloading for minimum headspace, etc., I have been doing already. My project for tomorrow is a .17 Remington 21" carbine barrel with a 4.5-14 Leupold. Hopefully it will tighten up to minute of prairie dog. I have been mining the copper out of it with WipeOut over the last few days. It just keeps coming and coming,...
Thanks again--
Mike

Max503 - The way I do it is first poke the foreend screw thru the wood....put the o ring on it. If you use the correct size o ring the screw will stay in place making this process much easier. Then I put the small thin washer over the o ring and put the whole works on the barrel. I tighten the screw closest to the frame snug and the screw closest to the muzzle just enough to hold the foreend secure. So the flat of the washer is against the flat of the dovetail nut that is in the barrel.

A hanger bar is a piece of 5/16 square steel stock that is milled on each end and drilled thru to match up with your existing dovetail nuts on a Contender barrel. It is bolted to the nuts and about midway on its length it is drilled and tapped to secure a foreend cut specially for it. I will post a pic tomorrow ....if you'd like. All of my Contender set ups have them....my son's frame is not setup with one because he liked the factory wood that came on his frame and if you modified a factory fore end it would have a couple of holes in it that would serve no purpose.

skb2706,
Thanks for clearing things up. Yes, I would like very much to see a picture of the hanger bar system.
I have heard so much about how accurate a 30-30 is out of a contender. I would like to get mine shooting good.
Max

I use a Bulberry hanger bar and synthetic forend on my 21" Bellm 30-40 Krag and it shoots great! Very good with factory ammo and great with handloads. It is the most accurate Carbine barrel I have ever shot and I think it's due to that hanger bar.

It's the magic hanger bar trick!!

I have two Bullberry barrels with the hanger bar and BB wood on the forearm and they shoot really well. I have 7 TC barrels with the two screw forearms in walnut and they shoot really well too. All the factory barrels are at or under an inch except my .45x209 ML and a Katadin 18" in 450 Marlin that both shoot about 2" or so at 100 yds whihc is fine for them.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I haven't seen a significant difference with either system.

What makes sense to me is if they welded a hanger bar in front of the hinge pin that did not touch the barrel so we could have a true free floating forearm like with a one piece stock rifle and glass bed the bar into the forearm with the quick disconnect to swap barrels. Anybody ever try that??

"if they welded a hanger bar in front of the hinge pin"
How would the barrel pivot over this to accomodate loading and unloading ?

SKB,

You're right!! The hanger bar would need to be attached to the barrel itself about a 1/2" forward of the hinge pin. I can't put pictures on the thread, but it would look something like this:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Barrel
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
xxxxxxxxx xxxx
XXXXXXXOX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
hanger


This appears to be just forward of the chamber on my 22-250 barrel and would provide a good solid support for the forearm if you used a 3/8"x 3/8" x 5" bar of mild steel tapped in the factory pattern to hold the two factory screws. It would require the forearm to be inlet and glassed for the hanger bar. Seems like it would provide a free floating barrel and better, more consistant barrel harmonics that would improve accuracy.

low - I am missing something. Because that is pretty much how hanger bars are done on Contenders...I don't own an Encore so I can't speak for those. I will try to remember to take a pic of mine and post it.

This would be welded on to the barrel in front of the lug and pivot pin for about a 1/2" on each side and then would not touch the barrel allowing a free floating fore end suspended by the welded portion of the hanger bar and not by the dovetail nuts on the factory barrel. From the welded portion forward, there would be no contact with the barrel like a free floating 1 piece stock rifle.........picture is worth a thousand words!!!! Sorry I'm not conveying my idea in a way to make it easily understood!!