I am considering buying a single shot rifle and hope you can help steer me in the right direction.

I will use this rifle to hunt deer size game in North America. It will be scoped. Looking for some standard cartridge (30-06, 280, 270.) 1" at 100 yds group from a rest is required. 1" group at 200 yds from a rest is desired.
Price is a consideration but not the only one.
I am not interested in the Handy Rifle or the any Russian imports.

I have never owned one but I like the looks of the 1885 based rifles. But these are hard to find and a bit pricey.

I have read that the Ruger #1 can sometimes be difficult to achieve good accuracy. Not sure - I just see from time to time on the web.

Any thoughts on these two? What else should I look at?

thanks

Mossberg SSI might do, but it's heavy. The Encore might meet your needs, but it's not pretty and handles like a 2x6. If price is no object have a look at the Dakota Model 10, the Blaser K95, or the Merkel K1

I really like single shot rifles. That being said-1 inch groups at 200 yards will be a very difficult thing to attain. If ultimate accuracy is your goal-then I would not waste my time with a single shot. With a little work 1 inch groups and slightly better are easily possible at 100 yards.

I personally think the Encore is a beautiful rifle, and with the thumbhole stock mine handles like a dream. I can shoot it off handed very well.

The 1885's and #1's are beautiful rifles, but 1 MOA will take some work with either of these rifles. I am not sure why you say hard to find?? My 1885 in 45-70 is one of my favorite rifles, but it will not shoot under 1 MOA.

For just a general deer rifle the Encore and the #1 are hard to beat. You should be able to get your Encore to shoot 1 MOA easily. Just be prepared to do a trigger job when you buy it. The #1 is a bit classier, You will also need to do a trigger job on the Ruger. And you will probably need to do some forearm work to get the accuracy you want. I am thinking about buying a #1 myself for deer hunting. But I will not be so picky. 1---1 1/2 inches for deer hunting is fine for the hunting I do. Tom.

Every Encore rifle barrel I've had would do an inch at 100 yards except for a 375 H&H Mag. barrel that would do about 1.5 inches at 100 yards. A 25/06 Encore barrel I'm working with now will do much better with less than 0.5 inch 100 yard groups being fairly routine and my best 3 shot group being 0.15 inches. That should translate into less than 1 inch at 200 yards.

With just about any rifle you would try, you will probably have to handload to get optimal accuracy.

I guess I'm saying, go with an Encore.

If you want an 1885 clone, about the only option for a modern high-pressure rimless cartridge is a used Browning Model 78 or Model 85. They are almost the same rifle, are generally capable of one-inch groups at 100 yards, and are very well made and finished. Expect to pay in the $700 to $900 range for one, but they are fairly common on the auction sites.

Dave

Forgot to mention in the original post, but I handload for all my centerfire rifles. All are bolt actions. And yes it usually takes some work to get less than 1" at 100 yards.

If your not in a hurry you'll find a rifle.

Found a Ruger #3 in 30/40 Krag it shoots fine and is good for deer. Later 06, 7mm rem, 260,
243 and 22-250 in 1885. And of course some shoot better then others mostly because of which ones I use. Really like the Browning.

Picked up the 06 to rebore and rechamber into
9.3x62.

Single shots come in two varieties; cheap and expensive.

Cheap is the NEF and Russian stuff.

Expensive starts at Ruger #1s and goes up to $100,000 German and Austrian single shots.

I love Ruger #1s, I have a Browning BCPR in 45-70, and have a Blaser K95 and three barrels for it. I like the K95 so much I am working on getting a second one.

They aren't going to be as accurate as a bolt rifle, but they can suprise you. I once had a Ruger #1 375 that shot .5 inch 5 shot groups.

I also had two other Ruger #1s in 300 and 45-70 that wouldn't keep 5 shots in a pie plate from a machine rest at 100 yards.

I love them but they aren't for everyone.

I think Thompson Center Encores are butt-ugly, but they work and they work well enough that I wouldn't mind owning one. Though I would hate myself for doing so.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

Your 1885 06 is there but it costs!

I think your accuracy requirements are quite reasonable, and certainly obtainable.

You'll want a Ruger #1, and then a modest amount of cash to send it to a gunsmith to accurize. There are a number of gunsmiths who specalize in the #1, and accuracy work is much less expensive than fancy metal work.

I have a Dakota Model 10 that shoots slightly under 1 inch at 200 yards (35 Whelen AI).

You'll need to select a scope that fits both your rifle and eye well (single shots are harder to scope due to the location of the rings, and where they abut the turrets on the scope).

After starting with the #1, if you get the SS bug, you'll be wanting to spend more $$ to get something you really like. It's a disease.

Garrett

quote:

I will use this rifle to hunt deer size game in North America. It will be scoped. Looking for some standard cartridge (30-06, 280, 270.) 1" at 100 yds group from a rest is required. 1" group at 200 yds from a rest is desired.

My choice would be a Ruger #1. Prices is not too unreasonable and they are decently accurate for the most part. While your accuracy standards are reasonable, they are not necessary for deer sized game. Even a two inch gun (Ruger's accuracy standard BTW) would be more than sufficient for deer sized game, but most #1s will do better than that. I shoot, hunt and collect Ruger #1 rifles in their various forms and currently have 21 of those neat rifles ranging from .22 Hornet to 416 Rigby and 45-70. Several are sub MOA guns and some are nto, with most being able to do one inch at 100 yards fairly consistantly, provided I do my part. The two I have (#1B) in 30-06 run about 1.5" at 100 yards, and the .270 (#1A) is about a 1.25" gun. two I have in .300 WIN> Mag. #1B and #1S) are both in the .375" to .75" range. The .22 Hornet (#1B) .257 Bob (#1B) and 6MM Rem (1B) are all half inch or better rifles.
All mine are ones using the contract barrels so many people gripe about. It is my understanding that the ones where Ruger is making barrel for are supposed to be better shooter but definitely need trigger work. At least the one I looked over did.
I do have a Browning B-78, their first falling block rifle and mine is a 30-06. It's decently accurate and would fall under your standards but the gun is damnably heavy. It weighs about as much as my #1V in .223. Either one needs a set of wheels.
My biggest gripe is Ruger dropped the #1S model which in my opinion was the best balances of the various models. Of the "A" models I have, i like the one in 7x57 the best, then the .270 and after that the .243.
Scope mounting is not all that big a problem as you can trade your set of rings in to Ruger for a set of offset rings. It's not so much that the rings aren't right, but the scope makers are making the front bell with too long a taper, probably more for looks than practicality.
One thing I do recommend if you get a #1. Remove the wood and do a decent job of sealing the insides of the stock. I'll be perectly blunt here, but I think Ruger does a damn shitty job of sealing the insides of their stocks, and that goes not only for the #1s, but the M77s as well. Just ask me how I know.
Paul B.

What do you think of the Mossberg SSI-One

I see one offered locally in "98%" 243 Win for $340

And thanks for all the replies

+1 on the No 1. I have 2, a 45-70 and a 204 (covering both ends of the spectrum). They are both a lot of fun. Accuracy is ok - not great but certainly on par with out-of-the-box accuracy of a lot of bolt guns. Both mine will hold 1" with handloads from a rest at 100 yards; I've never fired factory ammo through either so I don't know if that makes a difference.

I personally think 1" at 200 yards is expecting a lot from most factory rifles.

On the other hand, a Cooper in 7mm08 or 280 will get the job done in style.

What is so magic about a 1" group?

Most hunters I know seem to think that a 1" group off a bench fired sniper style (foreend resting on a sandbag, support hand holding the toe the of the butt) has some important quality about it.

In reality, most hunting shots are fired offhand, sitting or prone (with variations including the field rest off a sapling, stix, backpack etc).

My advice is to pick a rifle and load, then sight it in sitting with a stick for support (keep the foreend in your hand, though). If it will print 2-3" at 100 yards (point of aim/impact cooinciding), it will be more than adequate on game. If it won't print 2-3" at 100yds, it is more than likley you, not the equipment.

Then, staple a 9" paper plate on your backing and practice until you can keep all of your shots from a variety of postions on the plate from 50-75 yards. Move back 25 yards after cleaning the plate, until you are able to keep your shots on the plate at 200 yrds or more.

Practice this often and forget about load development and "bench rest" accuracy.

Game will not know the difference if you can hit regularly from field postions.

Remember, most rifle/ammo combinations are much more accurate that the operator can leverage under field conditions.

Kevlar underwear is now on, flame away!!!

The most accurate single shot hunting rifle I know of is the Blaser K 95.

I have a K 95 Stutzen in 308WCF.

Since I own a Blaser K 95, I am obviously biased. It is the ultimate single shot hunting tool on the market:

extremely accurate - my custom K 95 chambered in 6,5x65 R groups 3/4 " 5 shots @ 100 y with handloads - 57.5 gr MRP, 129 Hornady SST or 130 Accubonds

very ligh, tough, handles like a deam and operates with bolt action pressures (max 65k psi)

I prefer rimmed catridges. I you do not handload, go with a 270 Win for deer size game. If you do, the 6,5x65 R is the ultimate deer/sheep catridge.

A great scope is a Swaro AV 4-12x50 with TDS 4 reticle. Blaser saddlemount is a must.

I had mine custom made in Germany and did a self import.
You can order with Blaser USA and have a local dealer deliver, or go thru Cabelas Gun Library.

Any other question I can answer? PM is OK

F4

What all did a self import intail?

Start with a local FFL Holder. Any FFl Holder can import on an occassional basis. If he agrees to import for you, order the rifle thru Blaser in GE. When you know the serial #, have him fill out ATFE Form 5 and submit for approval.
After approval, have it shipped to the dealer.
I picked mine up while visiting GE.
But with the Euro being so high, there may be little savings. I would check for a custom order with Blaser USA and have it shipped to a local dealer.
A do have a 2nd barrel in 8,5x63 R (a somewhat beefed up 338-06 AI with a 60 deg shoulder) that covers everything large except African Big Five. Shoots also sub MOA.
You can get all brass (RWS and Horneber) thru Huntingtons.
I have a custom Encore. The encore compares to the K 95 like a Yugo to a Porsche!

Ruger # 1 and the Dakota are too heavy. The
K 95 is a fast take-down.
For air travel, it goes in the Blaser case, then into my duffle. No sep gun case. Reduced chance of loss!!!
All in all, the ultimate package.

quote:

If it will print 2-3" at 100 yards (point of aim/impact cooinciding), it will be more than adequate on game. If it won't print 2-3" at 100yds, it is more than likley you, not the equipment.

I guess it might be adequate for deer up to 100 yards but not for groundhogs at that range. It would also be a bit iffy for antelope at 300 yards.

If it prints 2 or 3 inches off the bench, then allowing for some unsteadiness for the shooting positions used for hunting, it's going to do worse. An optimistic number would be 4 inches and a realistic number probably more like 4 or 6 inches. Add a little wind or inaccuracy in estimating the distance and the error is going to be even more.

For a big bore rifle, I want groups shot off the bench to be no worse than 1.5 inches at 100 yards. For other than varmint rifles, I'll accept an inch. A varmint rifle should do no worse than 0.75 inches and 0.5 inches is more like what I want. For hunting handguns, I'll be happy with 1.5 inch 100 yard 3 shot groups.

Perhaps I should clarify-"game" does not include gophers, woodchuck, squirrels etc.

Again, you are thinking in terms of "benchrest" accuracy, not what is needed for field work.

Of course, we desire a hammer, laser like precision etc, but in field condtions it is not likley.

"Minute of whitetail" is actually about 10-12" at one hundred yards, so if you AND your load can hold 2" or so at 100, then you are technically able to kill out to 400.

Confidence comes from actually doing teh task, not determining how small a group you and your set up can print under "controlled" artifical conditions, like benchrest.

Using the M16 as an an example, young soldiers that can be trained to zero properly (5 or 6 shots into a 2cm cirle at 25m) can and do hit a humanoid silhoutte out to 300m with routine monotony. If they cannot get the zero, they cannot hit past 100m.

The accuracy standard for an M16, M855 ammo and the assumed ability of a Soldier is 3MOA each, or a cumulative error of sqrt )(3>2)+(3>2)+(3>2)) or sqrt 27, or 5.2 MOA. This is the root sum of squares. Meaning a Soldier is expected to be able to 15.6" groups at 300m.

A hunting rifle and commercial ammo shuld be capable of less than 2MOA each, and a shooter should be able to hold 3 MOA, so not we have a RSS of less than 4MOA, so 250 yd field shots at a whitetail should be virtually 100% in the kill zone (all other variables being accunted for-like wind, shooting angle etc.)

Try it. Grab your old 30/30, zero it at 100 off your bench if you must (open sights and all)but keep your support hand under the forearm. Then leave the bench, shoot the paper plate or 9" target, keep moving back 25 yds at a time until you cannot keep your shots on the plate-you will be back at about 175yds using 150 FP ammo, then drop will have yyor bullets at the lower edge of the plate... (this is your point blank range).

God Bless

I have a bunch of single-shot rifles - mostly NEF and Rossi's , couple of martini's and a Ruger #1 in 220 swift.

I have to say that putting meat on the table is possible with all of them , and the Rossi's win hands down on cost/practicality for my type of hunting.

The kill zone on a deer-sized animal is way bigger than an inch , so the "inch at 100" specification cuts no ice in my book. If you cant hit a deer at 100 , get closer.

Don’t believe all you hear about a No. 1’s inaccuracy. It may have been true at one time but I don’t believe it’s true now. In the last 3 years I have bought 2, a No.1A in a .257 Roberts and a No.1B in a .270 Weatherby. Both shot 1.25†groups out of the box with factory premier ammo. Both with trigger jobs and handloads shot sub-MOA groups now.

I also have an Encore with 2 centerfire barrels, 223 Rem and .308 Win, both barrels shot sub-MOA out of the box with standard factory ammo out of the box.

I also have a Handi Rifle in a 45-70 with peep sights at shots 2†groups with factory ammo.

K-95; the ONLY way to go.....

For K 95 lovers, how does it compare to the Merkel K 1?

404.....

For me it was simply a matter of personal taste. I looked at both rifles and decided I prefered the Blaser. When you compare them there's not a whole lot of difference, really.

That I already owned a R93 that uses the same Saddle Mounts - probably influenced the decision also.....

quote:

K95

Save some money, get a Blaser K95 and never look back. They are usually very, very precise. If you want to play with other calibers, just get another barrel.

Blaser K95.

trigger,
I am in agreement with N.Garrett concerning your single shot. However under 1" at 200yds is tricky at best with most single shots, or bolt actions for that matter. Keeping price in mind the Ruger #1 will do the job. I have had many of them, and a couple were pure dogs, but these were the exception not the rule. The two I have now (.223 and 25-06) will do .43 and 1.18 respectively with reloads, and I am sure the 25-06 would do much better with a few dollars spent at a Ruger specialist!!!

Now if money is no object the K-95 (hello Gerry) is a doll, but again sub MOA at 200yds for a hunting rifle is tough to find. Good luck and God bless. cordell

Reference: my first post:

The K 95 is extremely accurate (MOA or under) right out of the box. There is no tinkering required to make it shoot. Handloading only makes it better.
My 6,5x65 R shoots 3/4" or under with handloads, and I have no trouble to achieve repeating 5 shot 2" groups @ 300 meters!

The advantages of a single shot are or should be:

- super lightweight
- takedown
- very accurate
- versatile by use of exchange barrels
- a piece of beauty

You will not get/sacrifice some of the above attributes with a Ruger, Dakota or Encore. You might as well stick with a bolt action.

Blaser vs Merkel: In USA you are better off with the Blaser due their dealer net and direct marketing.

Compare the price of a hight end (Ed Brown) bolt action to a K 95 in standard trim (more than standard is cosmetic !!! only) and you will find there is little difference.

the merkel kipplauf is the best shooting single shot i have owned. superb accuracy at long distances - 400 yd kill on a gemsbok. best value for the money and factory support here in usa. they can fix it here if it ever needs anything.

The Merkel and the K 95 have what appears to be the same style of action.

I have hunted with Ruger No1's in tha past and liked them, but must say I re3ally like the Blaser K95/Merkel break open takedown single shots much better.

My K 95 is a Stutzen in 308. It has a full length stock and the last severaql inches of stock stay attached to the barrel when you break the gun down.

It is one of the most accurate hunting rifles I have ever fired.

I have had no extraction problems with the rimless case.

I have two TC Encores and 3 TC Contenders (two old ones and just bought a G2 today). Obviously, they don't have a "classic" look but can look very nice (ok, mine have custom wood). . .

my encore


my wife's


or the way her's looked in Africa before United Airlines broke the stock


Although all of our barrels are custom jobs from Bullberry (save one 10" contender barrel in 30-30), I have owned some factory barrels before I got into the custom stuff and found them to be pretty darn accurate. My original TC barrel was in .260 Rem and it was every bit as accurate as any factory bolt-action I've ever had . . . the custom stuff is even more so.

Also, I find the encores extremely handy, well balanced, and easier to hold off-hand than any bolt action I've ever owned. Don't get me wrong, I do hunt with bolt actions (and lever actions) too, but for field carrying and shooting off-hand, I'll go with my Encore.

Troy

Another single shot to consider is the Martini & Hagn

http://www.martiniandhagngunmakers.com/technicalinfo.htm

I placed an order for one of these in Reno at the Custom Gun Builders Guild show after talking with Ralf Martini and handling one of his single shots there. I also had considered a Dakota #10, but there was really no comparison between the Martini-Hagn and the Dakota #10. The Martini-Hagn cost a little more than the Dakota #10, but I felt I was getting a lot more rifle for the money (the Martini-Hagn was in a different league) and I really looked at it from a lifetime investment.

I ended up ordering a medium action in 300 H&H with 26" 1/2 octagon and 1/2 round barrel, integral quarter rib with one standing and one folding rear sight, banded front swivel, banded front sight and Talley scope mounts.

Ralf is easy to work with, very knowledgable and a hell of a nice guy

quote:

I ended up ordering a medium action in 300 H&H with 26" 1/2 octagon and 1/2 round barrel, integral quarter rib with one standing and one folding rear sight, banded front swivel, banded front sight and Talley scope mounts.

MHC.....

Blaser, Merkel, Hagn, Rossi, T/C, NEF; who cares? Didn't know Martini until I looked at thier website. Your rifle selection sounds VERY tasteful indeed.

Have fun with it!

Gerry,

They are both ex-pat Germans that live in Cranbrook BC. Martini has been in the Canada and the states forever, and Hagn moved over about 10 or 15 years ago.

Both went to Ferlach or Suhl, and their rep here in single shot-geek circles is huge.

I aspire to sweat on one in the African sun someday.

How's trix?

D99

I would go with the Encore just for the ability to add different calibers as I desired. I would go with a 308 or 7-08 as some of the TC barrels shoot great and some have issues. I have over 50 in Contender/G2 and Encore platforms. If the barrel doesn't meet your accuracy requirements you can ship it to Mike Bellm or Chase Mountain and have them make it into a 30-06 or 280 depending on which barrel you purchased. I have multiple rechambers by Mike Bellm and it is incredible what he can do with a barrel. Kim from Chase Mountain I don't have a barrel from but know others that do and they shoot.
Just one more idea, good luck with your selection.