I have a question...

Can the new Shiloh / Sharps rifles handle the pressure of "hot" loaded 45/70 ammo.

//M

I shoot a 500gr bullet at 1500fps in mine...just for buffalo and elk hunting...every day load is a 405 at about 1200fps.

Rich

I have a Shilo 40/90 ,Before ordering I called them and asked to what degree did they test their actions for PSI or CUP ? I was informed that their actions were tested to 73,000 PSI and they stoped there !

that is so, but I can load the 45-70LRE I have hot enough with 500gr Laser-Cast bullets to cause major league level extraction problems...that happens at 1600fps or thereabouts. IIRC that 73K PSI number was about twice what they proof at.

JMHO

Rich
DRSS

I am espousing the theory that dan has Alzheimer's Disease. The symptoms are eerily similar

Idaho Are you suggesting they told some kind of bullshit ? before I ordered my Sharps ! I'm sure anyone can load anything over the limit ! I load all my calibers with extreme caution and by the book , If tou have information about Shilo Sharps Please send it to my E-Mail address . Thanks

Concho,

NO!!! I currently own two, and have another one ordered.

But, proof load pressure levels differ drastically from suggested pressure loads. Call Kirk in the morning and ask him if their lifetime warranty will be in force if you load up a case-gard 100 full of 60,000+PSI loads for your 45-70 and preceed to shoot (with the help of several friends) the box empty after lunch?

Make you a deal, you go sign a waiver and have it notarized by an attorney in front of witnesses that says you absolve me of ANY liability resulting from firing 60,000+PSI loads in your Sharps. I have Oehler M43 pressure testing equipment, and I will load you up a box of twenty rounds that is right there at 60K PSI...or 70K PSI if you really want to test. Don't scare me, or the Bryants.

Let me give you an example: a friend Alan Hall, Hall actions in Clanton, Alabama; designed the Shilen DGA as a junior partner there. They were in Texas, and shot deer out of stands at extended yardages. He had some whoop-ass 308 loads for deer hunting that he characterized as "warm". He told a friend at Olin what they were, and the technician asked him to send him ten or so rounds to check...they seemed rather "very warm" to him. He was using once-fired WW brass for the loads. They pulled the loads, and placed them in new 308 cases there at the lab. They found more casehead expansion than in their "blue pill" proof loads, which were in the 75K PSI range. He was near 90K PSI IIRC. They would never tell him what there load was, by the way, but suggested he cut his load back about 20%!!! They were surprised that he had not blown the DGA up.

I am NOT trying to be argumentative or disparage the Shiloh Sharps Model of 1874. They are wonderful rifles, for what they are. The original design dates back to the Sharps/Hankins percussion rifle of 1852, and the only advantage of a brand new one is the use of better steels and improved heat treating processes.

Check ANY reloading manual that has loads for the 45-70, as that cartridge is available in several different action types; ranging from original Sharps and Remington rolling blocks and Ballards, to M95 Marlins, Ruger #1's, converted Siamese Mauser bolt rifles; as well as original and new model 1885 and 1886 Winchesters. Nobody recommends loading the Sharps, original or repro much past 38K PSI.

I hope we are not cross in any way, my response was strictly safety oriented. Do not want to read your obit here.

regards,


Rich
I am still espousing the theory that dan has Alzheimer's Disease. The symptoms are eerily similar.

Concho,

go to the Shiloh website and post your question there...but be prepared for some serious flack!!

Rich

Thank you Rich ! I only load my Sharps with Hodgton 3F Trip 7 and 215 Fed/Mag Primers I do have Remington Rolling Blocks That I use IMR 3031 for 45/90, 50/110 my Sharps is a 40/90 Straight , I don't ever intend on abusing it for higher pressures and more velocity .

you are most welcome. Hope we didn't mis-understand each other or something. Is your 40-90 the 3" or 3.25" case? My Shiloh 40-65 is in test stage with a Krieger 375 barrel as an oldie...the 38-90wcf. 9,3x74R necked back up to 375 with a 1:12" twist for 375gr bullets. I'm shooting AA3100 in both of my 50-110's, HIWall and M1886 with good results.

That 777 is great stuff, ain't it?

regards,

Rich
still...

My Shilo is 40/90 3.250 brass , I shoot 420 grain Lyman bullets . Use same bullets in my 40/65 Sharps barrel is 1in18 The rem 4065 is a gain twist ! very deadly shooter , Yes T-7 is the best I have ever used .

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
My Shilo is 40/90 3.250 brass , I shoot 420 grain Lyman bullets . Use same bullets in my 40/65 Sharps barrel is 1in18 The rem 4065 is a gain twist ! very deadly shooter , Yes T-7 is
the best I have ever used .

Hello concho....I have recently bought a Sharps in 40-90SS and have'nt been able to find smokeless loads for it...would you please share your load data and where you found it...thanks

Idaho Sharpshooter, and Concho. Im new to this and still searching and reading up on reloading BP. You guys are using 777 and liking it huh.
Why use it over Swiss BP. or any BP for that matter.

Are you also saying there are 2 brass sizes for a 45/90. Im looking into buying one and was not aware of this.

Dannyvp Read again 40/90 NOT 45/90 ! READ AGAIN LOW WALL ! I don't use smokless loads in my sharps 40/90

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
Thank you Rich ! I only load my Sharps with Hodgton 3F Trip 7 and 215 Fed/Mag Primers I do have Remington Rolling Blocks That I use IMR 3031 for 45/90, 50/110 my Sharps is a 40/90 Straight , I don't ever intend on abusing it for higher pressures and more velocity .

Well concho this was the post I was refering to.....maybe if you had put a period after 50/110 I would'nt have been as confused as Iam/was......thanks for your polite relpy--

Low Wall! Sorry I did not put period after 50/110 or comma ! The statement at beginning states! I ONLY LOAD MY SHARPS WITH HODGTON 3F AND 215 FEDERAL/MAG PRIMERS That should have been enough for you to not need a period or a comma ! My apologizes for your not slowing down enough to understand what was apparent !

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
Low Wall! Sorry I did not put period after 50/110 or comma ! The statement at beginning states! I ONLY LOAD MY SHARPS WITH HODGTON 3F AND 215 FEDERAL/MAG PRIMERS That should have been enough for you to not need a period or a comma ! My apologizes for your not slowing down enough to understand what was apparent !

I except your apology concho....

Howdy all,

I have a Shiloh #3 deluxe sporter in .45-70 that I have only shot smokeless through, sacriledge that may be. When I rec'd the rifle, I had read different opinions on loading, so I called Shiloh and I was informed that I could use the same published loads for the ruger number one. I use IMR 4198 and LBT 440 gr and 460 gr gas checked bullets.

Fwiw.

Hodgdons 777 will not:
1. corrode your cases, cleans up 100% with warm soapy water
2. corrode your barrel. one warm soapy patch and two dry ones.
3. foul your barrel with just one shot...you just shoot until you are done.

Black Powder shooters are a bit of an elitist group, the work that they go through makes them feel as if they have accomplished something worthwhile getting a sub-2moa load with black. They are generally friendly with load help,
but, unless you want to shoot BPCRS or the mid and long range matches at Raton, NM, or elsewhere shooting black powder is a tremendous mess and complicated to boot. That is, relative to shooting 777 or smokeless.
You just have to hang with a group of guys who already do, or really want to do it.

JMHO

Rich
DRSS
NRA Life Member

For smokeless powder, I use Hodgdon Varget in my C Sharps 45-90. It works great in the 45-70 also. According to the folks at Hodgdon, my 500 grain loads give just over 30K in pressure and my paper patch bullets chronograph at 1800 fps. Hodgdon shows Varget loads for the 45-70 and I believe you will be pleased with the results. It works great with my paper patch, cast, and jacketed bullets I make. It kills like crazy also. Folks I know like 52 grains of it behind my 450 grain paper patch bullets in their 45-70s. The performance should be more than acceptable for most of your hunting.

Good shooting,
Dave

Sharps made the west safe for Winchester!

I recently purchased a Shiloh Sharps in .45-90, and (per info from Mike Venturino) I've shot 460 gr. gas checked bullets in front of 31 gr. of AA-5744, without any signs of pressure problems (chrono'ed at 1450 fps). My question: any ideas of what pressure this load might generate ? Thanks.

IMHO, which is just and only that; in 45-70 or 45-90, once you take a 480 or 500 or heavier bullet past 1500fps you are beginning to stress the case and action. Mike some factory stuff before and after you shoot it, put your load in it and shoot a 5-shot group. Mike those cases for webhead expansion....001" over factory is about all you want to see. A Shiloh Sharps set up like mine with a pewter nosecap, London grey finish, and upgrade wood is artwork in steel and walnut. I had a 45-120 on a Ruger #2 (#3 action with #1 custom wood) and it shot like a 458 Lott. IMHO, again, pushing the velocity envelope with the Sharps is...sacrilegious!
Over 30 million buffalo were killed with the BP load which is a 500gr bullet and 70gr of BP for about 1300fps. Want velocity? Buy a HiWall or Ruger. JMHO

Rich
DRSS
knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich: Do you shoot only BP loads in your Sharps ? Thanks, FRANK.

Frank,

nope, I just shoot 1300-1400fps 99% of the time. When I take the old 45-70 elk and buffalo hunting each fall, I got a box of 500gr Laser-Cast that I loaded to 1570fps. I reset my vernier tang sight for 150yds and take my settings notebook along in my pocket. Two or three of those a year is all I've needed to date. I own CZ's in 416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs if I want to crunch myself. My shoulder would probably give out before I could shoot enough of the hot-rod loads, but for me the Sharps is a fun gun. Besides, all of mine have shotgun butt plates of steel, and trying to reach 458 Lott velocities would NOT be fun.

About a month after I got my 45-70 I managed to lock up the action with a 500gr L-C at 178Xfps. Stuck the case in the barrel, and had to knock it out with the cleaning rod. Three rounds of that stuff and the cleaning rod drill was enough to convince me that the Whitworth 458Lott and 460 Buhmiller I also had at the time were better candidates for the high pressure stuff.

Whatever the Bryants said for pressure is probably true, but that does not say it won't disassemble the action/rifle the second round at that level, it just tells ME that it held one round with that load. If it's an average of that Psi for 100 rounds and the dimensions on the breech block, barrel, and action did not change enough to be able to measure, that's different.

At $4000 per replacement costs, and a year, I just do not want to play with them that roughly.


as one poster says "...JMHO, your mileage may vary..."

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...