I have a nice older No1 in 45-70 and Im starting to consider my options for a change. I suppose the simplest thing would be a re-chamber to 45-120 to match my Buffalo gun. I also toyed with conversions to some of the Nitro Eexpress and BP cartridges (450 N02, etc). Id prefer a round I can buy factory loaded or at least one I dont have to form brass to load.

I have a SxS 45-70 so I dont feel the need to keep the No1 in 45-70. OTOH I dont have a specific need or idea what I want to do with the "NEW" gun.

Obviously buying a new gun would be easier; but that would take away the fun of a custom gun.


Open to suggestions

I'd say go with one of the 450 Nitro Express cartridges. Think it would be the best coolness factor with only a rechambering. And you can get factory ammo, although not cheap.

Ruger #1 with 22" barrel re-chamber to an .450NE-round? Hmmm... I don´t know....
When the .45-70 isn´t "it", I would go with a .45-90. But not more.
But I mean the .45-70 is on of the perfekt rounds for the #1 rifles.
And as re-barrel option, I would go with a .450/400 NE and 24" barrel lenght. Hornady is making ammo and brass.


Martin

If you go with 450/400, simply sell the gun and buy a new one. Lots cheaper.

I am just about to rechamber a 45/70 No 3 to 45-120 and add No 1 wood. Makes a dandy rifle. The first time I did it was to make a 460 Weatherby class carbine, which really worked and really wasn't a good idea. This time, in my mind I see a Buffalo hunters carbine, and somehow that appeals to me, however far-fetched it is. I believe the 45-90 is the best bet, but because of the first adventure, I am set up for the 120, and will likely go with thatplus filler. Besides, it is so impressive at the range when you pop that big bad boy out.

The 45-70 is a perfect round for anything Id likely be hunting around home (East Coast of the US). I just keep "wanting" something more. I think is has to do with all the other 45-70s I see. I have a SxS 45-70 and a Buffalo gun in 45-120 that Im told was originally 45-70. Clearly the No1 is strong enough for the bigger cartridges, but I agree the short barrel isnt optimal for them. I had hoped I might hear 450NE would be "OK"; but thankfully you guys steered me right.

My 45-70 SxS is the Baikal that I bought on a whim. Ive been told its not rated for heavy loads, so I dont want to try anything with that. Ive seen the Pedersoli SxS 45-70s re-bored to 45-120 and heard they were fine; but by the time I do that Im way into a K-Gun or Merkel, so other than having a custom, I dont see the point.

Im not giving up on the project; but this sounds like its time to shop for another rifle. I wanted a Plains game gun with a little more reach then my SxS 9.3x74R for Afrika next year.....

Ny comment about the 45-90 in the Ruger vs the 45-120 is based on performance. When I did this before, I could drive loads in the 45-120 much harder than was realistic to shoot in a light 22" barrel rifle. Given the pressure levels allowed by the ruger, 45/70 loads can be painful enough in the light rifle. Most of the "buffalo" type rifles are so heavy you couldn't carry them far enough to hunt, but you can get a performance increase by going all the way to the 120, just due to pressure limitations. You have to remember that it takes a lot more powder to simply duplicate 45/70 loads in a 45-120 case. This much increased loads kick harder than the standard loads. In a 120 case, you will likely need filler just to keep the powder charge low enough to be comfortable. I actually don't think it is at all needed in a rifle as strong as the ruger, I just think it would be neat to own.

If I wanted a serious hunting rifle, I would take a Ruger and rebarrel it with a faster twist than the 18" twist which is standard on the 45/70. This is designed for relatively light 45 cal bullets. Do something like a 26" octagon or half octagon in 45-120 with a 12" twist. Size it to give a finished rifle weight of around 9 to 9-1/2 pounds. You will then have a rifle that can be loaded with 350 gr monometal bullets for long range, or 450 to 500 grain thumpers. I would prefer the 45-120 to the 450 NE for the simple reason it is an american cartridge in an american rifle and will appeal to more people if you decide to sell it in the US. The 450 NE is really kind of esoteric in this country, even among big bore fans. The 120 has a much bigger following due to the sharps revival.

quote:

Originally posted by EDELWEISS:
I have a nice older No1 in 45-70 and Im starting to consider my options for a change. I suppose the simplest thing would be a re-chamber to 45-120 to match my Buffalo gun. I also toyed with conversions to some of the Nitro Eexpress and BP cartridges (450 N02, etc). Id prefer a round I can buy factory loaded or at least one I dont have to form brass to load.

I have a SxS 45-70 so I dont feel the need to keep the No1 in 45-70. OTOH I dont have a specific need or idea what I want to do with the "NEW" gun.

Obviously buying a new gun would be easier; but that would take away the fun of a custom gun.


Open to suggestions

I simply had the throat lengthened by .30" on mine (NOT rechambered!). Heavier bullets or long monos can be seated out by .25 - .30-inch, which in effect makes it the equal of a .458 Win Mag with a 22" barrel. With today's powders it can be loaded like a Win Mag at 2150 fps for the 500 Hornady (if wanted). Right now, my backup load for bear is a 400gr Colorado Custom RN (formerly Barnes Original) at about 2350 fps. It will make 2400 fps easily with that bullet (or any 400 with a lead core). My favorite load is a 350gr TSX at 2470 fps... That's good for anything from chucks to Cape buff! With it's fixed 4X Burris (with a 5-inch eye relief), it weighs 7.8 lbs.

I bought it new 12 years ago and had it immediately long-throated (can use only .45-70 brass).

Great rifle (MOA with most loads)! My favorite.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Personally if I was going to change it from .45-70, I'd either go with the long-throated .45-70 option mentioned above, OR I'd rebarrel it to one of the great .38 (.375 bullet diameter) to .40 (.401" to .411") calibers for which components are available.

Whichever cartridge turns your crank will be fine I'm sure , but the one thing I WOULD DO FOR ABSOLUTE CERTAIN if I opted to rebarrel is put on a very light profile 26" to 28" barrel with both iron sights and scope provisions.

I have already done that with several No. 1's, and for me it has turned them from a beastly awkward club into a real hunter's rifle, both ballistically and balance-wise.

And, though it isn't really important I suppose, it makes them much more attractive to look at so, just like with attractive girls, I like to take them out more often.

I have rebarreled a few #1's and while i love the gun, the rebarrel job is a bear. If I were going to do one for a big bore for myself, i would think, "why not 470 NE?" As was mentioned previously, the longer barrels are great on these guns and still very easy to handle.

Not a No. 1, but No. 3 Ruger carbine rebarreled from 223 to 45/70. Original factory offering in 45/70 was a real thumper due to it's very light barrel configuration. Good barrels and good 'smith are only some 12 miles or so from my house and had 23" heavier barrel installed set up for both irons and scope. With stout loads there is definitely recoil, but really not that bad and mild loads are very pleasant to shoot for extended periods of time. I am impresed with the accuracy of the little rifle and at 100yds the groups of five will make a cluster of some couple inches or less. Been working up some loads with Varget and 325gr HP lead bullets at moderate velocities and have lost track as to how many deer you can kill this coming season, but going to work on them pretty good this year. As most know, with the Ruger, you can load it up to about all you can stand if desired. Personally I would not change a thing about the 45/70. Easy to load, not cost prohibitive and it works.

quote:

Personally I would not change a thing about the 45/70. Easy to load, not cost prohibitive and it works.

And here a group of 5 rounds, loaded with the Hornady 300grs HP, fired yesterday. Rifle was my beloved High Wall with Swaro 6x42.


Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Fan:

quote:

Personally I would not change a thing about the 45/70. Easy to load, not cost prohibitive and it works.

And here a group of 5 rounds, loaded with the Hornady 300grs HP, fired yesterday. Rifle was my beloved High Wall with Swaro 6x42.


Martin

And my 26" octagon bbl Japanese-Browning M'86 clone shoots just like that with 350 gr. Berry's plated bullets and a case completely full of any brand of 4895, or VV N-135, AA 2495, or TU-5000. A bit heavy to tote, but a fine gun when it counts.
\
The plain vanilla 45-70 is a great round when fed a good handload.

AC

EDELWEISS: Lots of good advice here. Years ago I bought a No. 1 in .458 and had it rechambered to .450 NE, a pretty straightforward process. I chose the .458 because of the heavier tropical barrel profile and the 1:14 twist. Ruger uses a 1:20 twist in its .45-70s.
I think Bob's solution of have the throat lengthened is an elegant solution.
I have a deposit down with Big Luke on this forum for one of the Lipsey's special run No. 1s in .45-70 with 26-inch barrel (I'm with you AC!) and Circassian wood. I look forward to working up some loads with CEB and North Fork slugs for serious business. I think the rifle also will be a lot of fun with black powder and the big cast 500-grain RN government bullet. In fact this would be a fun and legal rifle to shoot in the annual Quigley match in Forsythe, Montana.

I managed to get a cheap 7X57 #1 and later on picked up a 458WM #1 barrel and then had that rechambered to 450 NE. It should be back in about a week! It'll fit right in with my 3 450 NE DR's and a 450 Express Alex Henry SS.
Personally I'd stay with a couple of mods to your 45-70 as stated above.

The post by .458 only is rather compelling. I like that idea.

EDELWEISS, I live close to you, we need to talk, and compare notes, PM sent.