OK, first off, I am NOT a gunsmith!

I'm looking at a "PTG Solid Pilot Chamber Finish Reamer" on Midway's website. I'm wanting to "open" my 50-70 sharps to a 50-90. They list the reamer for it, and the 12" extension handle (which I would also get).

My question is, how big a deal is it to do? Is this the right reamer for the job? Do I need this "finish" reamer, or do I need to start with another reamer first, and then use the finish reamer for a final chamber clean up? Am I wrong to assume (Oh boy!), that I can just insert this reamer in my 50-70 chamber and CAREFULLY use the hand reamer handle to ream the chamber out to 50-90. It seems pretty straight forward to me, but I'm looking for expert's advise here. Can I just use a loaded 50-90 cartridge as a "depth gauge", taking small amounts off the front of the chamber until the round just barely seats? Or, would I be better off using a sized empty brass case to do the same? I would be extremely careful to go slow and not take too much at a time, as I know from other metal working and wood working I've done, that "putting it back on", is VERY expensive!

Now I'm sure some folks are going to say, "Take it to a gunsmith..." And I was more than willing to do so, HOWEVER, I can't find a gunsmith that is interested or willing to do the job. I've tried to find a smith for about 2 years now, and I'm sick of searching. They either won't touch the job, or they (like one local smith) quoted me a ridiculously high price ($500) to do it (as he backpedalled almost all the way out the back door of his shop). One local smith said "No way, you'll blow yourself up." HUH?! I tried to patiently explain to him that I ONLY shoot blackpowder loads out of it, and have no intention of loading it stupid.

I have tried repeatedly to get Lee Shaver, who was recommended to me off a BPCR website, to do it. After three seperate attempts and him not returning my emails or phone calls, I gave up on him. He must be too busy to need the work. I've posted requests on other blackpowder forums, seeking a reputable smith, and not found one.

So, sorry for the long story, but I've resigned myself that I'm going to have to do it myself, or just buy another rifle (waste of money).


Looking for real advise, from real smiths who've been there, and done that rechambering and opening chambers with hand reamers. I should mention that I don't have access to a lathe, so hand reaming is pretty much all I have...

Thank you all in advance for your help and expert advise.

What kind of action? Maybe if no gunsmiths want the job it is because it's not approiate for your action? It's really a job for a lathe. It can be done by hand but the chances of wallowing out the chamber are much higher. A new case can be used as a headspace gauge.

Also a "finish reamer" is the only reamer you need.

I guess maybe I could've made it clearer, it's a Sharps action. It's a Pedersolli "Quigley" model. They chambered it in 50-70, 50-90, and also 50-140. Trust me, the caliber is "appropriate" for that action. Pedersolli uses good steel in their barrels and actions.

Any extra techniques I can use to help prevent "wallowing out" the chamber?

Thanks for replying, I hope to hear from some more smiths.

If/when I do it, I won't be trying to rush the job, and I'll be using plenty of cutting oil on the reamer...

Call JRH Advanced gunsmithing, 530-268-6877. Ask for Jack or Shawn. No problem to do the job.

If you're experienced in using reamers--any kind of reamers--and you're really careful, you should be able to do it by hand. The finish reamer is all you need and as long as you stop exactly on the existing rim cut, you shouldn't have too much worry about headspace. As has been said, biggest worry is having the reamer cut an out-of-round or a too deep chamber.

Rent your reamer here:

http://www.4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Rifle+Calibers

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
If you're experienced in using reamers--any kind of reamers--and you're really careful, you should be able to do it by hand. The finish reamer is all you need and as long as you stop exactly on the existing rim cut, you shouldn't have too much worry about headspace. As has been said, biggest worry is having the reamer cut an out-of-round or a too deep chamber.

Good advice. I cut a much tighter chamber by hand than I can in the lathe. Thats' on the ones that don't need a lot of metal removed, straight cases, improved modifications etc. Just go slow & keep it centered, letting the pilot center it. As for rough reamers. I think I've used a half dozen & have cut hundreds of chambers. The advice on renting from 4D is right on too. Good folks and very nice sharp reamers. Reasonable on their price & time allowed to do the chambering too.

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
I cut a much tighter chamber by hand than I can in the lathe.

Sounds like it's time for a new machine.

I think you can do this job if you use a modicum of care and attention.

Do you have a drill press? If so, then clamp the barrel vertical under the quill and clamp a center in the drill chuck to help keep it centered. There will be an indentation in the reamer to put the center in. Remember to use plenty of lubricant (I'm a big Tap Magic EP Extra) and just go slow.

i did one for a client. his sharps went from 45/70 to 45/120. worked out well. the barrel really should be removed and set up in a lathe.

Mr. Slim:

You would be well served to measure your chamber and the reamer before you start work. It is entirely possible, even likely, that the .50-90 reamer will not clean up your .50-70 chamber. You need to do a chamber cast and find the specs on the reamer.

Glenn Fewless

Mr Slim

You have just gotten excellent advice from a very knowlegable and capable "real smiths who've been there" gentleman. Although I have not met Mr Fewless, I have seen his work. You might ask Mr Fewless post a picture of his 1000 yrd Wesson style single shot .45-90, or the guns he submitted to be judged for membership in the ACG Guild recently. He does absolutely first class work.

Roger

quote:

Originally posted by RogerR:
Mr Slim

You have just gotten excellent advice from a very knowlegable and capable "real smiths who've been there" gentleman. Although I have not met Mr Fewless, I have seen his work. You might ask Mr Fewless post a picture of his 1000 yrd Wesson style single shot .45-90, or the guns he submitted to be judged for membership in the ACG Guild recently. He does absolutely first class work.

Roger

I would also like to see pictures.

A poor pic of some of Glenn's excellent work

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
I cut a much tighter chamber by hand than I can in the lathe.

Sounds like it's time for a new machine.

Nope, I have a very accurate (Rockwell) lathe and have had a number of very accurate lathes. You simply have normal off center (or angled) bores, threads, and all of that is exagerated as it turns in a lathe. Especially so if you use a floating reamer holder. Piloted center cutters also have a margin of error.
By hand, you can follow the bore exactly and cut the chamber perfectly concentric with the bore, if you are careful. A chamber reamer is supported very well and you can cut it to virtually no "slop" over the actual reamer dimensions.
Example, I cut a 222 chamber last month in a blank on the lathe and it came out normal. (match reamer). I cut another one by hand in a rechamber of a K-hornet with the same reamer. The re-chamber one has to have the case necks reamed to get it to chamber whereas the lathe cut one did not.
Been building rifles for well over 30 years and have done a lot of hand cut chambers on straight cases and those with very little metal to remove, hornets, rechambers etc. etc. I made an extension to chamber lever action 30-30's to AI's without removing the barrel and have done a bunch.
I also had some good teachers.

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
By hand, you can follow the bore exactly and cut the chamber perfectly concentric with the bore, if you are careful. A chamber reamer is supported very well and you can cut it to virtually no "slop" over the actual reamer dimensions.

You are assuming of course that the original chamber and bore are straight and concentric. It is my experience, that whether you ream by hand, or, use a lathe, when you are following an existing chamber, you are at the mercy of the person who blazed the path. As careful as you are, you are only as accurate as the existing chamber.

As far as floating reamers go, I avoid them whenever possible, choosing to align on the bore, and then using a small boring bar to set the path for the reamer. For those occasions where the bore and the camber are out of whack, as is the case with most factory stuff, then I use a floating reamer that actually floats vertically, horizontally and angularly. These tend to work pretty good!

Greg (or Malm or anyone else)-

When you were reaming by hand, was the barrel still in the reciever? If so, does that work out ok?

I ream the last little skosh of each chamber by hand. But i pull the barrel from the action after checking head space each time. I was told or read or had it in a dream or soemthing when I first started chambering that if the barrel was screwed in the action and was reamed, it would be easier to get it out of round or something like that.

I still do it that way, but it is a PITA to ream, install barrel, check headspace, unsacrew barrel, ream and repeat.

Am I just creating extra work for myself in your opinion?

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
Greg (or Malm or anyone else)-

When you were reaming by hand, was the barrel still in the reciever? If so, does that work out ok?

I ream the last little skosh of each chamber by hand. But i pull the barrel from the action after checking head space each time. I was told or read or had it in a dream or soemthing when I first started chambering that if the barrel was screwed in the action and was reamed, it would be easier to get it out of round or something like that.

I still do it that way, but it is a PITA to ream, install barrel, check headspace, unsacrew barrel, ream and repeat.

Am I just creating extra work for myself in your opinion?

One set up from start to finish. I start and finish the chamber in the lathe, then while it is still in the lathe, I polish the chamber, and only then do I remove it and install it on the action.

I once had a reamer roll off the bench and onto the cement floor and shatter. The barrel was already dialed in and the lead hole was bored and ready for the reamer. I left the barrel sitting in the lathe almost a week while I waited for the replacement reamer to arrive. I believe in setting up only once if I can at all help it.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
Greg (or Malm or anyone else)-

When you were reaming by hand, was the barrel still in the reciever? If so, does that work out ok?

I ream the last little skosh of each chamber by hand. But i pull the barrel from the action after checking head space each time. I was told or read or had it in a dream or soemthing when I first started chambering that if the barrel was screwed in the action and was reamed, it would be easier to get it out of round or something like that.

I still do it that way, but it is a PITA to ream, install barrel, check headspace, unsacrew barrel, ream and repeat.

Am I just creating extra work for myself in your opinion?

I usually take the barrel out of the action except those lever action 94's & 336's that I open up to 30/30 AI. Never had a problem with one & can do it @ much lower cost to the cutomer that way.
Never heard of a barrel threaded in the rec. causing out of round chamber. There really shouldn't be any compression (lateral) on the threaded area of the barrel. Might just be that the reaming is done with extensions??
Headspace shouldn't really be hard for you to do on a rimmed case. Just run it in til the rim cutter just touches the metal & you should be good: assuming the headspace is good now.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
By hand, you can follow the bore exactly and cut the chamber perfectly concentric with the bore, if you are careful. A chamber reamer is supported very well and you can cut it to virtually no "slop" over the actual reamer dimensions.

You are assuming of course that the original chamber and bore are straight and concentric. It is my experience, that whether you ream by hand, or, use a lathe, when you are following an existing chamber, you are at the mercy of the person who blazed the path. As careful as you are, you are only as accurate as the existing chamber.

I never assume the existing chamber is concentric . Most factory chambers are terrible in that regard. They are also usually very sloppy. TC's are the worst, but the others aren't far behind. Sometimes I think they line them up and walk down with a hand drill chambering the barrels
Even if the chamber isn't centered, I can get it closer by hand than it was, depending on the cartridge I'm taking it up to and if the reamer has a long enough pilot (& how well pilot fits the bore). The chamber will also be much "tighter" than the original one. Sometimes, I just back up the barrel & rechamber to get a better chamber in the same caliber. For those who really want to lighten a rifle (with the same barrel), I've cut off some of the thick breech end, re-threaded & chambered back to the same caliber too.
I hate to see fired cases with that "hump" just forward of the case head.... Though many of them shoot just fine.

I want to thank each one of you for replying with good info.

Thank you all.

I have decided to go ahead and give it a go myself. The reamer is currently on backorder. At least I know that sometime soon I'll be able to realize my 50-90 project.