I recently picked up a used S&W model 41. After 80 rounds of flawless function it intermittantly stopped cocking on the first round of a magazine. It fires the first round about 25% of the time, then the rest of the magazine works fine. I have tried 3 different mags. It goes like this- insert a loaded mag on an open action. Pull action rearward to disengage the slide stop and let the slide forward under its own spring power. Take aim, and nothing. Cycling the slide got it to fire only once. Any ideas?

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Originally posted by Taurus Bill:
I recently picked up a used S&W model 41. After 80 rounds of flawless function it intermittantly stopped cocking on the first round of a magazine. It fires the first round about 25% of the time, then the rest of the magazine works fine. I have tried 3 different mags. It goes like this- insert a loaded mag on an open action. Pull action rearward to disengage the slide stop and let the slide forward under its own spring power. Take aim, and nothing. Cycling the slide got it to fire only once. Any ideas?

Make sure that the slide goes fully forward. If the slide isn't fully forward, then the trigger/sear might not have re-engaged. Give the gun a good cleaning and try it again. Let us know.

Mine does the same thing on occasion, particularly if it is dirty. I have gotten in the habit of pushing on the rear of the slide with my thumb before the first shot just to make sure that is fully closed. I think it is a combination of fouling plus the pressure of the loaded magazine. Try loading 5 rounds and see what happens.
C.G.B.

clean it

I had a 41 once that started doing the same thing as you ran into.

When I tore it apart found out that the recoil spring was weak and the slide had battered over and was dragging.

Did some looking in the old parts books. What I found out was the first 41's had a weak spring for STANARD VEL ammo. Then later they put a stronger recoil spring in them for HIGH SPEED ammo.

So I would clean it really good and purchase a new recoil spring.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

Thanks for the info so far. After checking things out a bit more, it seems that it is actually cocking but will not fire.

All the times it was fired was with only 5 rounds in the mag, I was shooting in my club's indoor league for timed and rapid fire.

Cleaning a malfunctioning firearm is always a good place to start, but since it's got only 80 rounds through it I'll try the "make sure the slide is fully forward" idea before I do anything else. I didn't notice this as occuring but I'll admit to not looking for it.

I took the spring ang guide rod out then refitted the slide. It moves freely without dragging. The spring is 4 7/16 inches long.

Thanks a lot guys, I'll try it out and let you know.

It is not firing because the trigger and sear are not connecting for some reason. Sometimes the solution is as simple as a good cleaning and oil. If you brought the gun to me, the first thing I would do is clean and oil it, then I would, with an empty gun and with my finger holding the trigger in the fired position, rack the slide a few times and then slowly release the trigger and listen for the sear to reset. I would do this a few times until I was certain that the sear was resetting each time. Then I would fire it and go from there.

Bill

I have worked on pistols for bullseye shooters for a number of years now. Since you mentioned you were shooting bullseye you probably already know there are a lot of model 41's being used by that disipline.

With out looking at the gun I am about 90 percent sure your problem is related to the magazine safety. To check for that remove the right grip panel and observe it's function. Then test fire the gun to verify if the related parts are functioning correctly. It is possible to remove the magazine safety and spring and totally bypass it's function. Some bullseye shooters do this to make dry fire practice more convenient. I don't recomend you do this your self as the assembly is intricate and easily damaged if you are not experienced with 41's.

If the magazine safety is not the problem I would next check the function of the sear disconnector which is an integral part of the trigger bar. It is located on the right side under the grip panel also.

If you do have a gunsmith look at it, make sure he has experience with this model. It has been butchered many times by unskilled hands.

If you don't have a pistolsmith in your area who caters to bullseye shooters I would recomend you send it to Smith and Wesson. Their fees aren't all that bad.

Mr. Malmborg, I have done just what you've recomended and except for last Monday when this problem reared its head, the sear does reset each time. I fired it yesterday and had no troubles at all.

Craftsman may be on to something, when it happened Monday I believed it had something to do with the magazine safety. I'm wondering if something got in the works and caused things to hang up for a bit. I don't have the proper tools available to disassemble the grip, (I just moved) and I don't want to use the wrong screwdriver.

I talked to S&W today and they are sending me a new recoil spring free. The man on the phone said it's not worth my effort to actually order the $.49 part and pay $5 for shipping. It's in the mail today.

I should have it all set for Monday. I'll post the final results after my league.

Well everyone, sorry to be anti climactic but all it ended up being was that the trigger over travel screw was a half turn too far out. The smith where I bought it knew right away and that was that. I got a good chuckle out of it being so simple and yet so easy to over look, I hope you all do as well.

Craftsman, I am quite mechanically capable and was able to remove the mag safety and spring with no drama. The new recoil spring from S&W hasn't made it yet.

I shot two relays and had 268-3x both times. Not too shabby considering I've put only 150 rounds out of it after a 3 month lay off.

Thanks again guys for listening and for the advice. Good shooting.

Bill

Glad you got the problem solved so easy.

I've ran into that problem before but I was fixated on the mag safety since the gun worked sometimes with mag changes.

I have been shooting bullseye for about 4 or 5 years now. I had some luck in 05 and won Texas State Outdoor in Sharpshooter class with a 2470. That was good enough for me to make the Governors 20 also.

Keep it up, it's a good sport, lots of nice folks involved in it.

Thanks Craftsman for the kind words. I've been a competative shooter for the NY Air National Guard for several years now as a combat rifleman. I've since been awarded my Distinguished Rifleman's badge, 2 Cheif's 50s and a few Governor's 20s in both rifle and pistol. I'm also on my way to a Distinguished Pistol Shot. I'm headed for Camp Perry this July for my President's 100 in rifle. The more I shoot the more fun I have and the more great people I meet.

I got the new recoil spring in today, S&W sent me two for free. The new ones are a full 3/8 inch longer than the original.

I took the 41 to the range tonight and shot a 273-7x with no warm up using the Federal Target loads (red box). I picked up a couple bricks for $12.99 each. Here's some cheap ammo that realy shoots!

What's your lucky combination? I'll assume you also shoot a 41, but with what ammo? The 2470 score, is that out of 2500? I haven't yet got into the 3 gun type matches as I'm still predominately a rifleman. Congrats on your current success and I'm confident your future success as well.

Congratulations on the Distinguished Rifle Badge! The average shooter has no clue how difficult that is to achieve.

I just started shooting high power last summer at age 58. I'm shooting a match rifle class AR I built. I'm just now finding my natural point of aim and getting my positions down. I've been shooting 720's to 730's.

I only wish I was that good, that's 2470 out of a possible 2700. I started out with model 41's then finally settled on a Russian IZH-35M. It was used by Russian Olympic teams to beat the socks off everyone during the cold war.

I use a 1911 .45 on a Rock River frame and slide I built for the centerfire and .45 stages. It will hold 2 inch 10 shot groups at 50 yds on a ransom rest.

Give 'em hell on the service pistol and get that distinguished badge while your eyes are still good. You can do it, best of luck!

I almost forgot. The most used .22 ammo for Texas bullseye shooters by far is CCI Standard Velocity. This stuff is CCI Green Tag second run.

A lot of guys have discovered Aguilla. It is extremely accurate for the 50 yd slow fire.

Also Wolf Match is gaining popularity too. But CCI SV is used by 8 out of 10 shooters all over the state here.

I see CCI SV in over half the shooter's bags at league night but we shoot 50 ft indoors. No one wants to pay more than $22.00 a brick and now that I found the Federal red box stuff I pay about half that.

I saw a brick of Wolfe that was marked at $84.99. I looked up some info on the Biakal and if you can find 'em they're a great deal. I saw a couple in the $350 to $450 range. So far I'll stick with the 41 but man you've got me thinking! LOL I'm sure I'll be keeping the Biakal in the back of my mind when I walk in to gun shows and stores from now on.

Welcome to the high power side of the house. You're on the right track working on your natural point of aim. Getting this down first will really show when your groups start to shrink. Calling your shots gets real easy too.

I bought a RR match rifle last summer but have yet to fire it. After the All Army championships in Ft Benning in March, I'll be hitting it pretty hard. I'll start with 55 grain Lake City ball ammo for 200 and shoot Black Hills 77MKs past that. I shoot too many disciplines right now and don't want to spend the time reloading.

Keep a look out for a young Air Force SP named Nathan Watters. You might run in to him, he's from Texas and is pretty much the man in military combat style match shooting, does well in HP also.