Can anyone turn me on to reference books that are the How To Buy type? Like in lathes, milling machines, surface grinders ect.
Thanks,
RR

Go To and Drool
http://www.MachineryValues.com/

[ 12-01-2002, 22:42: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]

Try this link:

http://www.mermac.com/advice.html

also, when you have a day or two to spend go to www.metalworking.com and browse around.....

Thank you sir.

Roger,

Remember that when you have 800 pounds of iron in your garage whining away.... It is pretty addicting and costs more than a crack habit!

Mark,
There is no time like the present to begin doing research. I use www.abe.com and will get used textbooks to tell me "how to" and the site you listed I need to get two books. At least I can learn before it comes time to buy. My wife accuses me of researching everything to death. Well on this I think it will be ok to do that.
I want a big-assed press, a good lathe, milling machine, surface grinder, tool grinder, degreasing tank, MIG, TIG and stick welder, cutting outfit, pantograph, humidity controlled room, bead/sand blasting outfit. Hmmm...that about covers it for now. I figger if I go easy and buy using the appraisal services I have seen I can do it for under $25,000.00 or so.

I am looking three to four years into the future. Shipping out to Bethel is going to really hurt. Once I get set up to make silencers and other goodies I can amortize that machinery.

Roger,

The biggest buggaboo for us up here is there just isn't a good supply of used iron. And what follows is, don't buy sight unseen! I've resigned myself to buying chicom imports, they have their failings, but at least I won't be paying several $k for scrap iron. That and shipping from outside is a killer. A buddy in Kalifornia had a lead on a free bridgeport, only problem is the shipping was $1800, and I the free machine wasn't anymore.

If been pleased with my dealings with Grizzly so far, shipping is reasonable, as they just put the stuff on a barge, and their customer service is good.

Roger, I forgot about the shipping issue that Paul mentioned. I bought a K. O. Lee Surface grinder that had been purchased by a school and never used off ebay. With $400 shipping to Washington from CT the total was $1800. Is there a Grizzly dealer there? I now it is not the best but then neither is my Jet belt drive lathe but it does me fine.

[ 12-03-2002, 07:21: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Try this site:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html

This contains the most comprehensive free machine tool database that I know of plus lots of other useful information. I've used it a lot to help identify and categorise both older and newer machinery.

Hope it helps.

RJW

Chic,
As far as I know there isn't any dealer up here. As Paul said shipping can be stiff. I have been occaisionally patrolling the internet and have bookmarked a couple of sites for used machinery. There have been enough discussions here that I wouldn't buy sight unseen for sure. Just the thought of having to have Southbend send a technician out to Bethel to weld and re-grind the ways on a "killer deal" lathe makes me ill to the stomach. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I will continue to search and read. I just ordered, "How To Use A Lathe", used for $12.00 plus shipping from a company off ABE.com I have a line on a machine tool text by Yusuf Altintas that looks quite complete for $75.00 this retails for $110.00 at amazon. Love that abe.com!!
Once I have a shop built and am in process I will try to buy from a reputable machinery dealer and make it coincide with a trip or vacation. If I can get two or more machines from the same outfit so much the better, then have them shipped to Seattle for consolidation. I would simply rent a shipping container and try to put everything in it. Those used hydraulic presses can be pretty huge
My biggest concern really is how to mount the machines to reduce vibration since everything out there will need to be on pilings. Or there is a new geodesic frame foundation that is expensive but very rigid. Another concern is the shear mass of the equipment with some of those CNC 3-axis millers running 3-5 thousand pounds, about the same as a large used lathe. The manufacturers sure didn't skimp on cast iron 25 years ago. I need to get over to the engineering section here at school and ask the professors where I can get my hands on papers dealing with heavy, stationary equipment in buildings on the tundra.
RJW thanks for that link, I just glanced at it and immediately bookmarked it.

[ 12-03-2002, 08:59: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]

Chic,

We don't have any dealers in town, well, there are some but the prices are high. The Bellingham Grizzly store is right by the docks, and shipping to Anchorage is ~$.30/# For locations where items need to be trucked, then shipped, it about doubles to $.60/#, and if you need some riggers to move stuff to the trucking co, then you are up to ~$1/#.

I don't envy Roger in the least for having to then get things humped over to Bethel.

From my perspective, Grizzly is the best option for Alaskans, the tools are useable if one goes to the effort to clean them up, and set them up square.

I can't say enough about their customer service, I bought one of their heavy duty cross slide tables for ~$120, and the one they shipped had been dropped. I called them up, they said to return the damaged one to the shipping company, and they mailed a replacement, which cost them $80, and not a penny for me.

I'd love to get some good used tools, but they'd have to be really good deals.

Oh, and for Rogers question about mounting them rigidly, nothing beats a nice slab of concrete. But to do that on permafrost would require that you refrigerate the ground to keep in frozen in the summer.

I've been a machinist for over 22 years, and a working 'smith for over 11, and all that time looking at equipment that has been listed for sale. Any company I've worked for that surplused out machines always got rid of the machines that were too worn out to hold tolerance, and those were usually plus or minus .005. Milling machines and laths used in industry take a beating, period. They are used to make money, fast, by people that don't usually give a rip about the machine.

Any machine I have ever seen for sale had usually had the life beat out of them. Holes, gouges, ways worn unevenly, you name it. Almost all machines I've seen for sale needed new seals, bearings, parts, what have you. Now, I'm not saying that there are not some killer deals out there. But, how much time, how much shipping, and how much do you want to pay for repairs?

I bought a "top of the line" ENCO mill/drill for my first mill about 10 years ago, it was all I could afford at the time. I drove up to Seattle to bring it home in my truck. Made a weekend out of it with the wife. I still have it and it does everything I want it too. I set the table up with indicators for accurate work and it works swell.

My Atlas, flat bed lath was a gift from an old friend that had a full shop. It was his first lath, the one he started in his basement with. It is toast. The ways are very uneven. The lead screw is beyond shot (and over $300.00 to replace) and it seems that it needs new spindle bearings among other parts. It was free, but every time I use it I cringe and cuss because I have to use it.

I'm saving for a new lath now, which will be an import. It will last the rest of my life because I won't be taking 3/16 inch or better cuts on it, I won't be drilling holes as fast as I can turn the tail stock wheel, and I won't pitching parts out of the chuck from taking "too big a bite" when facing off parts.

This is only my opinion, but I'd buy new. And I'd buy the best import I could afford. While I try to "buy American", it is very difficult to pay three to four times the price for a machine that will do you no better than something less expensive. Money spent on more expensive machines could go for outfitting the rest of your shop, which from the sound of it, is very ambitious. And remember, once you are making money you can always upgrade and use it for small umimportant stuff.

Oh yea, you might consider getting a verticle/horizontal milling machine. They are really handy once you learn their peculiarities. And, I was just curious, are you planning production runs? The only reason I ask is because there is no other reason too buy a CNC machine. Unless you are planning multiple runs of the same part, the expense of the machine and time spent programming won't pay for the part you are making. Besides the fact that in order to remain accurate and for longer production life, they require much a better foundation than conventional equipment.

Regards,

Eric



[ 12-03-2002, 23:15: Message edited by: Eric ]

Eric,

I do appreciate the reply and believe it or not I copy these and paste into Word documents for future reference.

I originally posted for the reference books since I do my studying quite a while before I actually buy anything and for this, like I said, it will be a few years.

I will hold out and look for that deal. If I can find a lathe well placed, I might even be able to have the ways trued for quite a bit less than a new machien. Southbends "rebuilding" section is in the process of being updated, I will know more on the costs associated with that soon.

When I was working on the Slope, on the ARCO side, I was in the machine shop often and had a chance to look at their equipment. Three very large Jet lathes and an assortment of other machinery including a truly enormous Cinncinati Drill that could rotate the head and the worktable could angle. This thing was much taller than me and had to be seen to be believed. The quality differences between the imports and the American were apparent even for a nimrod like myself.
If I can get away with a used American machine I will.