I am researching a lathe for gun smithing & general hobby type work.
I would like to know what brand & size lathe would be good for this type of work?

My only recommendation is that you buy a Geared Head, 36" lathe with a large (2-2 1/2") spindle bore, preferably one that doesn't require manually replacing head gears to cut metric threads. The well known brands (Atlas, South Bend, etc.) will all be expensive but, there are several brands of Taiwanese lathes (JET for instance) that are good and affordable. If you can get can get one with a Cam-Lock chuck, that would be a real plus. Count on spending $3K to $3.5K delivered. Do a Google search on machine tools, that will bring up lots of choices.

Grizzly makes what they call a gunsmithing lathe, looks very similar to Jet??
I have yet to hear of anyone who has one, but am curious myself. I've used Jet and Grizzly wood tools, planers, jointers ect and have been pleased with them.

I don't know of anybody that makes a 2-2 1/2" spindle bore lathe that is small enough to be a suitable gunsmith lathe. Who makes one that cuts metric without changing the gears? Not trying to start a pissing contest, but am unaware of one that will be like you say in a 14" swing or smaller or having a headstock short enough to chamber in the headstock with that spindle bore size.
Butch

You won't find a 2" spindle on any lathe for 3.5K. Most of the run of the mill 13x40 have a 1 7/16 to 1 9/16 bore and that is plenty for most gun work.

John

A 10X40" lathe is a minimum.
Thru hole in spindle should be 1.4" this will allow 5C collets to be used. Finding a lathe with a 2 to 2.5" bore is going to be tough for a hobby.
And I don't see the need.

A good used machine will run about 2K and new about 5 to 7K for an inexpensive overseas brand.

Your best bet is to buy a used machine like an old southbend 10" or 14" with a quick change gear box.

As for current model brands
ACRA, Acer, Jet, Knuth, HWACHEON, Southbend,
These will all be lower priced machines.

A 14X40 form them would cost between 3K and 10K

Kerry,
That would be for used machines. ACRA, Acer, and Jet are in that range, but I believe the new Southbend[foreign made] and the hwacheon are more expensive than that.
Butch

Butch Some of the more expensive tool room lathes will cut metric gears just by throwing a single lever from english to metric. You are still in essence changing a gear but this way you are only selecting the gear not disassembling the machine.

But those machines are in the 30K range

I would say don't let the type of drive be the deal breaker. If you can afford a gear head lathe then great, but belt drive lathes are usually quite a bit cheaper, and, are plenty good for this type of work. My first lathe was a JET 12x36 Belt Drive bench lathe with a threaded chuck that sat a top a metal desk and served me well for many years. I sold it to a friend and bought a 13x40 gear head lathe which I have been using for 16 years. The gear head lathe doesn't offer any greater precision than a belt drive machine. What it offers is a little more convenience, but believe me, you can work around that.

Kerry,
I'm aware that my soon to be delivered 10EE is an inch/metric model and the Hardinge may be capable, but they are not suitable for barrel work. They are also not inexpensive.I don't think a gearhead lathe makes as nice of threads as a belt driven lathe.
I do my chambering in the headstock of my Clausing 6913 14X48 lathe. It took a lot of work to make it suitable for doing 18" barrels in the headstock.
Butch

I was going to ask about that as I do my barrel in a steady rest with the muzzle just inside the chuck or if shorter then 26" bore supported on a mandrel in a four jaw chuck.
I check the bore concentricity to the OD and chuck up on OD if the bore is true to the OD. If not I use the mandrel.

I would assume you have some way to support the muzzle end of the barrel and a way to keep it true to center.

As per which machine make better threads. Well lets just say all things being equal it's the technique more then the machine. I've cut threads on both and don't have a preference except a CNC lathe.
Now that's that way to cut threads

Check out the Jet 13 X 40....it is a fine lathe and somewhat affordable

Harbor Freight has a 13 X 40 Lathe that is the same as the jet, but less expensive. Cam-lock chuck, 1.875 thru spindle, need to change one gear to cut metric threads, works great for around $2700 delivered. The lathe isn't the expensive part, it's the tooling......Tom

Butch-


Congratulations!!

quote:

Originally posted by butch:

I'm aware that my soon to be delivered 10EE is an inch/metric model...

The 10EE is one of the sweetest, smoothest, most accurate and solid machines out there...
and you got an inch/metric one!!
Good for you!

Does yours have vacuum tubes or a black box?
Is it the high-speed spindle model?

Enjoy it.



Cheers
Tinker

My new Grizzly Catalog shows a Gunsmith's Lathe 12 X 36 W/stand, D1-5 Camlock, inch & metric, 1 5/8 bore, with outboard support and brass tipped screws all for $2995 plus 250 for shipping. I have the same version (older) that does OK. Not quite as slick as the more expensive ones but you can turn out good work. The barrels I've chambered and threaded all shoot pretty good.

Grizzly has a couple of nicer gunsmithing lathes for $4195 and $7695 too.

Grizzly has South Bend lathes, etc.

They even have Bartlein Barrels and Kiff reamers!

God Bless, Louis

If one can find an old LaBlond lathe in the used market, It's about as good as a lathe gets.....

It might be a bit spendy however.

Sheldon also made great lathes that will serve as gunsmith lathes.....quite good in fact.

Just for your information the Clausing Colchester along with others that use the same quick change threading box are able to cut metric and imperial threads without changing any change gears. Just select the thread pitch you want.
Here go some examples, I am not saying any of these are worth purchasing but at $4500 if it was in good condition it would probably be worth inspection.

http://cgi.ebay.com/13-x-40-cc...?hash=item48389c7fbb

http://cgi.ebay.com/CLAUSING-C...?hash=item19b8cec7be

I don't know if this Clausing Clochester does both metric and imperial without changing change gears


http://cgi.ebay.com/Colchester...?hash=item5ad2d9b29a

And a couple of Grizzly lathes that do both metric and imperial just by moving levers.

http://www.grizzly.com/product...h-Metal-Lathe/G0509G

http://www.grizzly.com/product...le-Speed-Lathe/G0670

Others will know the US market better than me, but I use this lathe and the spindle length is 23" without a chuck in place, and I do manage to do barrels through the headstock shorter than that......Ian

http://www.scottmachinery.co.n...10&scode=LCNT-0-3240

Kerry,
I use a cat head on either side of my headstock. It is supported on both ends. I can't think of a more accurate way to chamber as you can indicate the grooves on each end to the spindle.
My inch/metric has ELSR and is the hugher speed model. Mine is what they call a WIAD. It has tubes and it is called "works in a drawer".
The lathes that I have seen that are inch/metric require you not to disengage the half nut.
I am headed to the DSC show, be back later.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by Kiwishooter2:
Just for your information the Clausing Colchester along with others that use the same quick change threading box are able to cut metric and imperial threads without changing any change gears. Just select the thread pitch you want.
Here go some examples, I am not saying any of these are worth purchasing but at $4500 if it was in good condition it would probably be worth inspection.

http://cgi.ebay.com/13-x-40-cc...?hash=item48389c7fbb

http://cgi.ebay.com/CLAUSING-C...?hash=item19b8cec7be

My Kent TRL-1340 is a copy of these Clausings. Great machine but not cheap. Cuts metric with a flip of the switch. Not quite in the same league as Butch's new toy. Would have bought a used Clausing if any were near enough to inspect.

Still use my 9" Southbend for many smaller jobs, just not barreling or metric.

quote:

Originally posted by youngoutdoors:
My new Grizzly Catalog shows a Gunsmith's Lathe 12 X 36 W/stand, D1-5 Camlock, inch & metric, 1 5/8 bore, with outboard support and brass tipped screws all for $2995 plus 250 for shipping. I have the same version (older) that does OK. Not quite as slick as the more expensive ones but you can turn out good work. The barrels I've chambered and threaded all shoot pretty good.

Grizzly has a couple of nicer gunsmithing lathes for $4195 and $7695 too.

Grizzly has South Bend lathes, etc.

They even have Bartlein Barrels and Kiff reamers!

God Bless, Louis

FWIW, the guy who owns Grizzly is a typical immigrant/American success story- and a target shooter, which explains the gunsmith lathes; from the look of his newer catalogs, it seems he's taken up as a luthier, also.

I've had good luck with Grizzly tools myself.

Butch
That's what I figured you were doing.
And your right there is no more accurate way to thread and chamber a barrel. It must be concentric to the bore AT BOTH ENDS. I've seen guys just through a barrel in the chuck and go for it. And a three jaw chuck at that. For those not in the know A three jaw chuck typically runs out about .003" average. Second is how about the muzzel? it wobbling out there in space guess what now your threads and chamber are not on the same axis as the bore.

And FYI Grizzly now own Southbend machine tools. they bought them out from Leblond a few years back. they are supposed to be good machines though unlike the typical import stuff.

Either way to the original poster Buy what you can afford and don't be afraid to hold on to your money a wait for a deal. Don't buy the first thing that crosses your path. A good deal will come along just be patient

I hunted all over ebay looking for a good lathe to replace my 1929 South bend Jr. lathe. It took the better part of six months to find a deal. I found a 1950's South bend 10L lathe with a QC gear box and Tapper attachment. I had to drive about a thousand miles round trip to get it but for $650 I can't complain. A little cleaning up and she has been running for three years with zero problems.



My other two scores were a Bridgeport Mill for $1100 and a K. O. Lee surface grinder for $300



Now I need a CNC

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
And your right there is no more accurate way to thread and chamber a barrel. It must be concentric to the bore AT BOTH ENDS.

Nope. The purpose of the chamber it to get the bullet into the bore as straight and as accurately as possible, so you only need to dial in about the first 6 inches or less. To where the pilot runs, or, to where the bullet enters the bore. Once in the bore, the bullet is on it's own. The crown needs to be concentric with that end of the barrel for a clean exit but that's about it in a nut shell. Doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:


Nope. The purpose of the chamber it to get the bullet into the bore as straight and as accurately as possible,

And this is why i indicate muzzle to chamber when practical. You may be right But my Tool maker machinist mind disagrees. It could be over kill on alignment but it makes me feel better.

quote:

so you only need to dial in about the first 6 inches or less. To where the pilot runs, or, to where the bullet enters the bore.

Indicated over six inches is usually good enough run out at the muzzle is most likely less then .002" over the length of the barrel which is nothing in reality

quote:

The crown needs to be concentric with that end of the barrel for a clean exit but that's about it in a nut shell. Doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

Semantics here but concentric and perpendicular to the bore.

I bought a Grizzly 4003 12 X 36 gear head lathe a number of years ago and have no complaints. I have built 8 or 9 rifles with it and it worked fine. I just finished this project with it.

That is so cool!!!
What caliber???

Anyone who has ever sectioned a gun barrel, tool and die makers included, know that the bore is never perfectly straight and that it wanders from one end to the other. So with this in mind, I would like you to explain in terms that I, an unschooled, pretty much self taught machiner of gun barrels can understand, how dialing in the muzzle is going to help the chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
I bought a Grizzly 4003 12 X 36 gear head lathe a number of years ago and have no complaints. I have built 8 or 9 rifles with it and it worked fine. I just finished this project with it.

SLICK....are plans available for that somewhere?

I gotz t' know- why do machinist's tool chests have a mirror in the lid?

To remind them how pretty they are.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
Anyone who has ever sectioned a gun barrel, tool and die makers included, know that the bore is never perfectly straight and that it wanders from one end to the other. So with this in mind, I would like you to explain in terms that I, an unschooled, pretty much self taught machiner of gun barrels can understand, how dialing in the muzzle is going to help the chamber.

It's does one thing and one thing only, it sort of averages the the deviation from true center.
It's like a tolerance stack, you are trying to reduce the error as much as possible. Not indicating the bore at the muzzle adds that amount of run out to the total run out.
And please understand I mean indicating the bore at the muzzle and chamber.

And it squares the barrel to the receiver when you thread the barrel so long as the face of the receiver is square


I understand that the bore may be off (and way off) axis some where between the muzzle and chamber. But every part I've ever machined that was longer then a few inches Usually somewhere on the print was a call out for concentricity along the long axis datum line. In other words it was the way i was trained in trade school.

Like I said though It may be in fact complete over kill to do it that way.

Butch I keep having to replace mine .......it cracks evertime I look in it..

Seriously I thought the mirror is there to aid in extracating foreign matter from your eye......that's what I read somewhere, possibly the Machinists Bedside Reader.

Butch I'm envious of your 10EE with metric and imperial capability, I've never seen one in person. I have a HLV that I'm rebuilding and have only ever seen 3 of these in NZ and none of them had metric/imperial capability without change gears......Ian

The mirror is great for when you get a hot chip stuck to your eyelid - or similar - and want/need to check on things before you bat that eyelash, or simply to clear other grit/crap from an eye.

quote:

From TinCan:
why do machinist's tool chests have a mirror in the lid?

Or for the pretty guys like Butch...

quote:

From Butch:
To remind them how pretty they are

Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
To remind them how pretty they are.
Butch

I gave you a golden opportunity to reply, "to keep their pants from falling down", and ya blew it.

Gatling Gun plans:

http://www.google.com/custom?q...A1d2a7495eeed915b%3B

Here's one for you Westpac.

Why is the receiver faced off?
Why Is the bolt face faced off?
The lugs don't count as that is for strength But then why all this attention to getting things square and concentric if the chamber doesn't matter?
Seriously I'm not trying to pick a fight or question your ability It's an honest question As I don't smith for a living.

vapodog
The plans are available from RG-G I don't have the site handy but google RG-G.

Its .22 caliber

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:
Harbor Freight has a 13 X 40 Lathe that is the same as the jet, but less expensive. Cam-lock chuck, 1.875 thru spindle, need to change one gear to cut metric threads, works great for around $2700 delivered. The lathe isn't the expensive part, it's the tooling......Tom

Tapper2,

Could you please give me a link to this lathe?

Thanks.

Jim

Now the big question. How long did it take to build in machine hours? It looks like it would take about three months full time to get it done.

http://www.harborfreight.com/c...taf?Itemnumber=66164

One thing to be aware of. These machines are not Ready to run from a machinist stand point.

You will as with any other machine tool clean and oil the whole machine. In addition to adjusting all the gibbs and ways. This may still not give you a good feel in the handles but what can you do for under 3K

Here's on e on Ebay right now not to far from you
http://cgi.ebay.com/CLAUSING-C...937dd#ht_4755wt_1167

at $2400, it's a great bargain.

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
vapodog
The plans are available from RG-G I don't have the site handy but google RG-G.

Its .22 caliber

I just did.....thanks....plans and prints for about $60....helluva deal.....