Is it possible, if done correctly and professionally,to shorten an Argentine 1909 trigger guard to fit a small ring Mauser? Is it worth the effort, what are the downsides? Please advise.

Jim

Which small ring? 96 Swede? Lots of 98 Mauser small rings out there.

Which small ring.

A M96 mil bow can be replaced with a 1909 type and a new straddle floor plate installed.

A 1909 guard can be cut in half to fit the Mexican 1910 and 1936 actions. Then tiged up and a straddle floorplate installed.

I sent you a pic a very short time ago of a 1909 guard shortened to fit a Mex

Jim Wisner
Life Member American Custom Gunmakers Guild

quote:

Which small ring? 96 Swede?

96 Swede

quote:

I sent you a pic a very short time ago of a 1909 guard shortened to fit a Mex

Thank you Jim

I have one if you want to try it out. I can’t remember who I got it from but it was a decent job just needs a couple weld touch ups. Depending on which action and cartridge it can be done different ways. I never tried this one in anything as I got it in trade. If you want to try it and see how it feeds needs to be changed I can send it to you either buy it or return it after playing around.
Don

What's the objective? hinged FP?

Carmichael's DIY book has nice instructions on adding a hinge, but the release is not in the bow.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Markey:
I have one if you want to try it out.
Don

Don thank you for your offer, I'll keep your info just in case plan a doesn't work out.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by richj:
What's the objective? hinged FP?

The 1909 trigger guard is already hinged. I need a one that is 7.620" between centered front and rear trigger guard screw slots.

Hinged floor plates are over rated; just learn how to un load it from the top.
Millions of Mausers built that way can't be wrong.

I would think it much easier to fab a hinge for a swed fp than to cut and weld a 1909. Beside you can probably get 2 or 3 96 TG for the 1 1909 TG.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim@IMReps:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by richj:
What's the objective? hinged FP?

The 1909 trigger guard is already hinged. I need a one that is 7.620" between centered front and rear trigger guard screw slots.

richj you may be right, this is a new one for me, just trying to make hay with what I have on hand and not have to fork out $$ for a new trigger guard, which in the end is probably cheaper anyway.

I had some errands to do in town this morning, so once I got back I had time to triple check the 1909 vs the M96.

Won't work, there is a 3mm difference between the inside of the 1909 box location at the front vs the M96.
The 1909 is longer to the rear where the feed ramp is on the M96.
The overall difference to the rear can be taken care by cutting and welding BUT the front section makes it a no go.

So the options are.

Take the Military M96 guard, and replace the bow with a inside hinged 1909 type latch, and mill the slot for the hinge and then put in a straddle floorplate.

Once all the work is done and it is in the wood you will not be able to tell that it was a military guard to start with.

I have done many rebuilds/conversions like this over the years.


Also the Yugo M24 guard/magazine well and hole spacing is so close to the M96 that one of the Custom aftermarket high $$ guards will bolt on and work

Jim Wisner
Life Member, American Custom Gunmakers Guild

quote:

Originally posted by Jim@IMReps:
Is it possible, if done correctly and professionally,to shorten an Argentine 1909 trigger guard to fit a small ring Mauser? Is it worth the effort, what are the downsides? Please advise.

Jim

Or better yet , sell the swede save the barrel insert on a Turkish , add your trigger guard and have a stronger , safer action that you can load long and touch the lands
A lot of small ring actions have hinged floor plates . Most have a button on the in the front guard . I can't remember which ones but I think they were Spanish . I'll have to check I may be remembering converting these to hinged but I've got one hanging around , somewhere.

Jim@IM

Just running the numbers, the 09 Argy box is short enough as it is. To shorten a 09 Argy even further might be in vain.
Could explain why every custom Swede offered had the original bottom metal. Couldn't find one with a custom made one. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Just a novice outside looking in.

The cartridge numbers-----hope someone else has magazine inside lengths.

09 Argy '96 Swede
Base .473 .480
Shoulder .429 .435
OAL length 2.992 3.150

quote:

Originally posted by J Wisner:


Won't work

Jim Wisner
Life Member, American Custom Gunmakers Guild

Thank you Jim, pls don't forget about the pictures for the PME Swede 96 safety we discussed earlier.

Gary and custombolt, thank you, appreciate you input.

Jim

Yes, Spanish ones are hinged and have the side button.

What the BIG problem is the location of the front of the inner magazine box, where the feed ramp sits on the action vs the front guard screw hole position.

The 1909 sits back 3mm from the M96 ramp.
The M95 sits back 2 1/2mm from the M96 ramp

I can take a pic of a M93/95 military hinged guard, a M96 military guard and a 1909 guard to show this difference if someone wants to post it.


Really an eye opener just why all the length changes they did between the various actions

Jim Wisner

Back wall 1909 on a Yugo



Front wall 1909 on Yugo

One of Jim’s floorplate on an original Yugo guard. If I did it again I would use a new bow as Jim stated




The guard I had was modified for a Springfield not a small ring sorry.
Someone can correct me but the Yugo and a Swede dimensions pretty much the same?

True again; the 95 mag boxes are slightly shorter than the Swede; Still work perfectly I find.

Still a lot easier inserting a filler on the front or rear . Bend to fit OUTSIDE of box and weld , braze or solder .
I still would use a Turk 1938 large ring small thread and be done with it and be safer.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes, Spanish ones are hinged and have the side button.

Top one is the hinged Spanish, note the button at the front of the triggerguard

If you replace the button they are decent little unit. I have a few guards if you need one and I need to make some more buttons.

Nice!

quote:

Originally posted by hogfarmer:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes, Spanish ones are hinged and have the side button.

Top one is the hinged Spanish, note the button at the front of the triggerguard

There is a gentleman on ebay that makes and sells 96 Swede bottom metal with a lever release and hinged floor plate. I can put you in contact with him if you like. Send me an email.

Jim used to make a 1909 style trigger guard that you could weld onto a 96. We have talked about doing them and may this year...

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
I can put you in contact with him if you like. Send me an email.

PM sent

Pics from Jim Wisner

Just an example of what can be done to a Miliarty Mauser M96 guard.

A lot of people do not know the layout of the Yugo M24 and 48 guard is the same as the M96 guard regarding the front boss and magazine well locations.

JW

One thing to note is the inletting is different though.
Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Markey:
One thing to note is the inletting is different though.
Don

Don would you mind elaborating in more detail about the inletting difference please?

And you have a pm.

The Swede is wider so you can open a stock fit for a Yugo guard to a Swede but not the other way. See the pic of my guard and compare it to Jim’s. Look around the front screw and you will see the difference.
Don

quote:

The Swede is wider

Good to know