i own a "uberti-italy" sharps 74 reproduction rifle. this rifle is in 45/70 with a serial # of sh283**. the 34 inch barrel is half round half oct.

in taking this action apart i see that the block is massive...being bigger and beefier then my ruger #1 was. only diff i see is how the hammer is configured to the bore and the firing pin is diff as well.

question is will this action withstand the 40,000 psi that the marlin and winchester area of reloading? i dont see why not but before trudging ahead i thought i better ask this in a few places before i start down this path.

i dont want to load from the ruger area as i dont like the pounding those loads give and this is a for fun gun for sure.

thanks for the replys in advance and i know this isnt a new post but its new from me.

I don't believe that the Sharps is made from the same steel that the Ruger is made from and they don't go through the same heat treat. Neither does the barrel. Therefore I'd stay with the black powder cartridges and equivalent modern powder loads. To clarify a little bit, Hodgdon lists on their website 45-70 loads for Trapdoor rifles, lever action Rifles, and modern rifles. You would probably be OK with the Trapdoor loads and the lever action loads but not the modern rifle loads. Those are intended for the Ruger #1 and similar.

Check that the firing pin nose fits snugly in the block, otherwise it should be perfectly safe with any factory load intended for the lever rifles.
Regards, Joe

Go to this url to read Dick Trenk's reply to the same question. Dick, until his recent, untimely demise, was the North American representative for Pedersoli.

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-...ble_limits_09-04.htm

The Pedersoli 1874 actions are forged of modern steels suitable for modern firearms and the barrels are made of modern high carbon steels used for modern, high intensity cartridges. these are very strong, very safe actions.

Jerry Liles

Jerry,


thanks for the link. that tells it exactly like it is. this is just what i wanted/needed for my information. if hotter then 29,000 psi loads are wanted or desired i will trade or buy another more modern gun.

thanks again
Ted

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
Go to this url to read Dick Trenk's reply to the same question. Dick, until his recent, untimely demise, was the North American representative for Pedersoli.

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-...ble_limits_09-04.htm

The Pedersoli 1874 actions are forged of modern steels suitable for modern firearms and the barrels are made of modern high carbon steels used for modern, high intensity cartridges. these are very strong, very safe actions.

Jerry Liles

But still limited to 25,000 PSI as per the link you posted.

Shoot what it was designed to shoot and nothing more and the rifle will last longer then you.

Trenk's article was specifically about Pedersoli's.
Not all Uberti Sharps were made by Pedersoli.

I don't know if that was a warning or a suggestion to go for it.

Personally I would not try anything other then hot black powder loads as no one can definitively say what type of steel the receiver and barrel are made from and what the hardness is. Although the hardness can be found out relatively easily. The other thing is has anyone considered the design of the lever action itself can this design even if made from the correct steel and properly heat treated withstand Ruger equivalent loads?? Not all falling blocks are created equal

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
I don't know if that was a warning or a suggestion to go for it.

Personally I would not try anything other then hot black powder loads as no one can definitively say what type of steel the receiver and barrel are made from and what the hardness is. Although the hardness can be found out relatively easily. The other thing is has anyone considered the design of the lever action itself can this design even if made from the correct steel and properly heat treated withstand Ruger equivalent loads?? Not all falling blocks are created equal

I have seen Ubertis that looked sort of crude like the Armi Sport models. The hammers looks like a percussion model.
In other words, when in doubt include it out.

I thought I'd add this other post by Mr Trenk concerning the steels and method of manufacture of Pedersoli rifles. While I only shoot black powder in my Pedersoli Sharps and have no plans to use anything else I'd not be concerned using smokeless loads of 40,000psi.

Jerry Liles


Compliments of Dick Trenk, US Pedersoli Match Co-ordinator:
These are the nominal dimensions given to each rifle, with a mfr. tolerance of unspecified fore and aft change due to the obvious differences in how far the reamer is actually moved into each barrel. I would guess we control reamer depth by +.003" and -.000" .
Rim Dia. .618"
Rim width .070 (depth of rim seat)
Case dia at rim base .508
Case length 2.129 (includes .070 rim thickness)
Length of 45 deg angle .060
Diameter at rear of throat (at 45 deg angle) .4598
Length of throat .236
Diameter of throat at front .4578
Leade angle 1 deg. 30 min
Bore dia, .4500"
Groove dia .4580"

Leade length and distance is not quoted and the leade angle will control that.
Remember that when the reamer is used a bit deeper or more shallow it not only changes the rim seat depth but affects the leade start and end locations as well.
Dick T.

....................................................................

Pedersoli barrels are machined from a chrome moly alloy having the metalurgical composition called 30Cr Mo4 Uni 7845 which is a patented alloy variation developed by Mauser in the 1930s specially for their new M34 light machinegun which has such a rapid rate of fire. The alloy was designed to prevent or minimize the barrel from "walking" the bullets on the target as the barrel heated up. To my knowledge only Mauser, Sako, Mannlicher and Walther use this expensive alloy which Pedersoli buys.

For our action frames ( and other parts such as breech blocks etc.) we use a special alloy which is best suited for the "forging" process we use on ALL our Sharps, Rolling Block, Trapdoor, Colt Lightning and forthcoming HiWall rifles.
This alloy is identified as being 18Cr Mo4. This alloy alows what is called "cementation hardening." Which gives a hard wear resistant surface of proper depth, while maintaining a non-brittle softer internal molecular structure necessary on such parts which are subject to shock and high stress loadings repeatedly.
This alloy also allows us to produce very colorful case hardened exterior surfaces so desired in fine guns. The alloy can also be finished in standard hot blue/black or "coin" color finishes.

Smaller parts are made from equally suitable steel alloys and are properly heat treated by means of induction coil methods and oil or water quenched, according to the desired hardness and type of alloy being used.

..................................................

At Pedersoli all barrels are drilled and reamed but then we add a third step which is to HONE the bore hole to bring it up to the match grade tolerance of the final bore diameter. Also the honing produces a much finer finish in the bore hole and this fine finish becomes the tops of your lands.....mirror finish affect before we start the broaches on their job of cutting all the grooves.

Also, we use two of these 5-6 foot long broaches on each rifle barrel.
The first broach brings the rifling up to within .0020" of the final dimension. The second broach having 15 cutters brings the rifling up the last .0020" to the final dimension.
This second broach has the last three cutters of the exact same size. As cutter #13 makes the final tiny cut it is worn a bit. Eventually cutter #13 will no longer bring the groove up to the final diameter so cutter #14 which has been doing no work, comes into play and handles that final cut.
#14 eventually wears a bit and cutter #15 which has done no work up to this time, comes into play and takes over making the final cut.

Experience tells us when to remove the broaches and have them resharpened back to normal dimensions. Barrels are visually inspected using a borescope which projects the picture onto a large TV monitor. Air gaging is performed to verify the rifling is within match grade tolerances (plus/minus .0002").

cementation hardening Is just another name for Case hardening.

An .30Cr/.04Mo could be a modified 4000 series alloy of nearly anything

Uni 7845 is an Italian Standard like DIN or ASTM

No doubt is most likely good to top notch steel I'd just like a little bit more info on it. Or at least a b=very close ASTM equivalent.

40Kpsi Might be ok after all but be sure when reading the specs no Ruger #1 loads

I don't have a ton of experience with Pedersolis but have smithed a few and completely rebuilt one into a completely different rifle.

IMO Pedersoli makes the best Italian Sharps replica, period. Actually I personally would prefer the Pedersoli action and barrel bore over ANY other Sharps replica except one from Ed Webber. Pedersoli's metal polishing and wood finishing aren't too good but their internal metalwork is first-rate IMO.

With a snugly-fitting firing pin nose in a Pedersoli Sharps, I personally would cheerfully load all the way up to the 40K mark and even beyond. Actually in the past I've said up to 50K but I'll be conservative here for this forum.

Uberti? OK but IMO not as good as Pedersoli.
Regards, Joe