What's better, large stock pot or small stock pot at base of PVC pipe? I'd guess small will boil and create steam faster? 6 quarts enough to do a steam cycle?

How many holes in top and what size? Less hole area, the pot boils faster, but less quantity of steam? Lots of little holes?

Thanks,
Steve

4 qt is plenty. I drilled about two dozen 3/8 in holes. That will let enough steam in. The pipe will be capped and acts like a lid to contain the steam. You only need to boil about a quart per cycle.

I boil the water in an electric tea boiler first; it is super fast; then put it into my 4 quart pressure cooker; no pressure involved as I have 5 one inch holes in the top. The ;whole process takes only minutes. Ten for the actual part steaming. You only need one quart of water anyway.

Thanks, guys. Did a couple of cycles last night. I'm converted.

how well do these rust blues hold up in heavy (hunting) use?

A true rust blue will outlast any other blue. Carbonia blue fares almost as well. Express or Belgian blues wont last but one or two hunting trips.

Rust blue is super durable. Much better than hot salt blue.

quote:

Originally posted by Scrollcutter:
A true rust blue will outlast any other blue. Carbonia blue fares almost as well. Express or Belgian blues wont last but one or two hunting trips.

Forgive my ignorance but what is not a true rust blue?
Are all rust blues not similar and if not what are their differences?
Thanks
BB

Hot salts, express method (hot water method)and traditional or accelerated cold rust blues all produce the same black oxide finish. Traditional and accelerated cold blues produce a deeper and more tenacious oxide due to the use of acids and metallic salts which etch and cause a deeper rust penetration. When converted by steam or boiling this layer is converted to ferro-ferrocitic iron oxide or commonly magnetite.

Salts and most express methods are fast but don't wear as well. They were developed for speed of production. Traditional cold rust or slow rust blues can take a number of days depending on chemical composition of the blue and weather conditions. If you were to take steel wool to salts, hot water, and rust blue you would quickly see the difference.

Accelerated rust blues were developed by industry in the 1800's and perfected by WW1. They are called accelerated because heat and moisture are regulated and consistent. Thus producing the same tough finish that slow rust blues form but in the matter of a few hours vs days. The obvious purpose being to speed production over slow cold rust methods.

The steel is coated with chemical, dried, then dry heated for a few minutes. This warm steel raises the dewpoint to a level where droplets cannot form that cause spotting. The warm steel is then introduced into a mild steam chamber for 30-45 minutes until a ripe rust forms. The steel is then briefly heated as before then placed in a hot high volume closed but vented steam chamber or boiling distilled water. The conversion to black oxide usually takes from 7-10 minutes. The metal is removed, cooled, and carded. Repeat these steps until desired color is achieved.

I own a company named Rustblue (www.rustblue.com). The rust blueing formulas I manufacture and sell(USA only)are close replicas of proven industrial accelerated rust blues of the day. They are quite potent and color steel quickly using the above methods. Usually only 2-3 passes at most.

I started rust bluing in 1985 while I was working at Wisner's gun shop. I tried all methods of bluing from fume bluing to express/Belgian to homemade cold bluing formulas and all of the commercial cold rust blues. Ottmar suggested Baiar's Gun Goddess. I haven't tried any cold blues since I discovered the Gun Goddess. Four passes minimum and 5 maximum. The blue is literally built up in thickness over the gun metal.

I am in complete agreement with Bobster's historical run down on various rust blues. I have not tried his formula, but wouldn't hesitate to try it.

Bobsters formula will black/blue in one pass, and I usually do two just to make sure everything is even.

Older being late 40's to 60's. Prior to that I believe they were rust blued. Most of the Auto 5 re-blues that come through the shop are hot water/express blued. They wear heavily at handholds and gun case contacts. The old ones from the 20's rarely show much wear. They have a deep satin black finish. Hard as nails. You can rub all day on it with steel wool and not scratch it. A couple of years ago I received a 1920's A5 with the "suicide safety" at the front of the trigger guard. It was found in an attic and believed to have been there for forty years. Other than some mild surface rust and varnished lube it was in good shape. I steamed it and buffed out the rust spots with steel wool and it looked great. I don't think any other blue would have done that well. Did I mention that was in SC where the summer humidity is over 80%? Also, one of the great beauties of rust blueing is the ability to do undetectable touch-ups in the event you rub some spots thin or bright. So guns don't have to be totally re-blued.

quote:

Originally posted by thirdbite:
Weren't older Brownings Belgian or express blued?

So is it correct to say that Gun Goddess Blue is a rust blue, and Bobster's offerings are accelerated rust blues, but there is no difference they wear.

Of, were the Brownings of the 20's blued with a solution that is not available today.

I can't find a website for Gun Goddess or a MSDS so I don't know whats in it. But technically if it rusts steel and you steam or boil it to get color it is a rust blue. Durability is another issue. Some are better than others and some may take many passes to get color. My formulas are based mainly on commercial and military ones developed for wear resistance and rapid coloring. The Browning formula likely contained mercuric chloride which is quite toxic and unsuitable for general use these days. It is also extremely expensive. Unnecessary though because there are other metallic salts with similar rust producing qualities. My American Formula is a close approximate.

Bob
www.rustblue.com

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
So is it correct to say that Gun Goddess Blue is a rust blue, and Bobster's offerings are accelerated rust blues, but there is no difference they wear.

Of, were the Brownings of the 20's blued with a solution that is not available today.

I have some old 100 year old rifles that have been hunted to death, and the wood looks like drift wood, the pads are rotten and the blue still looks like the day it was done..Another example is the Brnos mod. 21 and 22, old beautiful rifles, probably the best ever commercially made and as good as most custom rifles, and all of them have like new blue, they were all rust blued..

Most all my guns are rust blued..I think the early Savage 99 were all rust blue, and the Rem 722 and 721s have a silver light colored blue that's handsome as can be, Im pretty sure they used a rust blueing process, but whatever it is its nice...so many of todays hunters and shooters have spent millions trying to discover the most durable of finishes, when all the time if was staring them right in the face..

quote:

.....so many of todays hunters and shooters have spent millions trying to discover the most durable of finishes, when all the time if was staring them right in the face..

Indeed. There are many tens of thousands of guns out there with fading hot salts or express blues that could easily be re-blued at home with "Rustblue". If there is no active rust these finishes can be coated and rust blued over the existing finish. If there is active rust just remove it with a rust mover or abrasive and then rust blue the entire gun. For added protection seal the final product with a 50:50 mix of BC TruOil and mineral spirits/turpentine instead of petroleum oil. Wipe on heavy and wipe off until there is nothing on the surface. Let dry for a week. Then heat to around 250 F for 30 minutes. This will bake it into the pores of the steel and prevent water intrusion and rust. Wax with two coats of Johnson's Paste Wax for the ultimate weatherproofing. Then one coat a wax a year for life.

FWIW for comparison the Brownells Pilkington solution took 6 passes to complete. I did a Swed and a Yugo mauser.

Both were boiled in water.