Gentlemen

A few weeks ago I brought a 416 Ruger reamer from PTG.

I sent my 416 Taylor to the local gunsmith to get the barrel shortened, fluted and recut the chamber to 416 Ruger. My Uncle also did his aswell

The gunsmith could only get 2 cuts out of the reamer and informed me it would need sharpening before he used it again.

He told me he did everything he normally does, it was just very, very diffcult to cut the new chamber.

MY question is:

Do you think the reamer was infact poor quality or already blunt ?

My 416 Taylor had fired a couple of hundred rounds, some quite HOT. Is it possible the high pressure and temperatures generated over the last few years have OVER hardened the metal around the old Taylor chamber ?

Any other explaination ?

regards
S&F

I have had 2 brand-new reamers that actually were apparently TOO sharp. A PTG one in 45-90 belonged to Green Mountsin Bbl Co and began to squeak and chatter during the first chambering operation. I emailed Rick Sanborn and he told me, since it was brand new and was probably too sharp, that I could VERY, VERY LIGHTLY stone the cutting edges of the flutes; I did, and it cut beautifully after that with no squeak and no chatter.

IMO it isn't possible that your chamber steel became harder, no way Jose. IIWY I'd send the reamer back to PTG for Dave's evaluation.
Regards, Joe

What brand of barrel was it?

Stainless Steel?

It's possible your smith fired up the lathe in reverse. Quick way to trash a reamer.

What's your avatar supposed to be?

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
I have had 2 brand-new reamers that actually were apparently TOO sharp. A PTG one in 45-90 belonged to Green Mountsin Bbl Co and began to squeak and chatter during the first chambering operation. I emailed Rick Sanborn and he told me, since it was brand new and was probably too sharp, that I could VERY, VERY LIGHTLY stone the cutting edges of the flutes; I did, and it cut beautifully after that with no squeak and no chatter.

IMO it isn't possible that your chamber steel became harder, no way Jose. IIWY I'd send the reamer back to PTG for Dave's evaluation.
Regards, Joe

I believe you're correct
You can also take the ultra sharp edge off by dragging a penny down each edge although a light stoning would work as well just remember you are just trying to knock a wee bit of the edge nothing more.
FYI Used chambers can become harder but by the time they do become work hardened the bore is trash as well

And A style is a Italian Fashion line

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
And A style is a Italian Fashion line

That's funny, it looks like dog style to me!

That just might be what they are getting at.
High fashion, high prices, Bend over

You guys are probably right about the reamer.

One other thing I wonder about....some of the 700-series stainless steel in barrels turned out by Blackstar a few years ago can be very tough on reamers if cut at the wrong feeds & speeds. Is it possible he had a couple of those and didn't know it...and the gunsmith didn't know about that 700-series stuff and how to cut it?

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
You guys are probably right about the reamer.

Was that a pun?

The Blackstar barrels were made my Walther. The stainless ones were much more difficult to chamber than a CMoly. The prechambered barrels from Walther have, for lack of a better term, a coined or burnished finish in the chamber. This would make sticking a new reamer in the chamber an expensive gamble.

Is it also possible that the bore was chromed???

Doesn't seem likely on a boomer, but stranger things have happened.

Most of you probably already know the fix for the chatter..just wrap a piece of note paper around the reamer...

Wax paper works great also if it is still sold.
Butch

Slightly changing (reducing) the lead angle on the shoulder portion of the reamer will take care of chatter too.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Wax paper works great also if it is still sold.
Butch

I don't know about down there in southern Oklahoma/northern Mexico , Butch, but it is still available here in the land of perpetual swamp. Cut-rite brand is still sold in every major grocery chain.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
You guys are probably right about the reamer.

One other thing I wonder about....some of the 700-series stainless steel in barrels turned out by Blackstar a few years ago can be very tough on reamers if cut at the wrong feeds & speeds. Is it possible he had a couple of those and didn't know it...and the gunsmith didn't know about that 700-series stuff and how to cut it?

I agree, I was reading along and was wondering about his feed/speed. Seen someone burn out normal drill bits doing that, let alone reamers! It can be quite amusing watching someone try and use a dull reamer! Or better yet watching them trash a new one.
Almost requires popcorn when watching it, if its not your bit.


Let us know if and when the problem is solved. I m quite interested in finding out the results.

That's one reason Gunsmiths should have some machine tool education either formal or under the wings of a good toolmaker.
Knowing tool geometry is a big part of being a machinist. Rake angle, primary and secondary relief angles, Nose radius. Not top mention what the tool is made from i.e HSS, 5% cobalt, Carbide what have you. A good tool maker will know what to do almost instantly when they see, feel, or hear something amiss. A drill press monkey will just keep on pushing till the drill turns blue and the oil goes black.
Keep in mind my definition of a machinist is an old school type tool maker The same way i was trained. Not one of these CNC machine operators which is nothing more then a glorified button pusher

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
That's one reason Gunsmiths should have some machine tool education either formal or under the wings of a good toolmaker.
Knowing tool geometry is a big part of being a machinist. Rake angle, primary and secondary relief angles, Nose radius. Not top mention what the tool is made from i.e HSS, 5% cobalt, Carbide what have you. A good tool maker will know what to do almost instantly when they see, feel, or hear something amiss. A drill press monkey will just keep on pushing till the drill turns blue and the oil goes black.
Keep in mind my definition of a machinist is an old school type tool maker The same way i was trained. Not one of these CNC machine operators which is nothing more then a glorified button pusher

Right now I am under the wing of Steve Davis. He is the machinist instructor at KVCC where I attend. We are will not be working on the C&C or AUTOCAD stuff until the last 2 semesters of the program. I will be doing my work study with a gun smith not far from here.
Precision Machining Technology

That's the foundation I'm talking about. Learn to use the manual machines first then the CNC stuff if available. You are on the right path. Pick up as much as you can from the old timers they are a wealth of knowledge and skill.
Don't listen to people that are burnt out saying machining is a dying trade. They have just failed to adapt and learn new techniques. I've never been unemployed longer then about three weeks. The tools you buy are just as valuable as the one between your ears Machining is a good trade and a good machinist will AWAYS be in demand. I've been a machinist/tool maker and hobby gunsmith for near twenty years and I'm still learning and will continue to learn till I'm to weak to turn a handle. Then I'll sell my machines and crawl into the ground and die.

What Kerry said. I just wish I'd had sense enough to pay more attention to Bill Prator when I was at Trinidad.
Regards, Joe

I would question the gunsmith's ability first.
If the reamer sucked he should have been able to tell by looking at it. If he could not tell by looking at it he could have felt what was going on in the first 10 seconds.
If your barrel is stainless steel he might have work hardened it by not feeding fast enough. That would be his fault not the reamer.

PTG reamers usually cut much better at 120 rpm instead of the old standard 60-70 rpm.

First PTG reamer I ever tried to use acted like it was dull and was using too much torque at 60rpm. Called PTG and Dave told me to bump it up to approximately 120 rpm. It cut like butter.

Thanks, Craftsman, I liked his reamers before and am sure I'll like 'em even better now.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Craftsman:
PTG reamers usually cut much better at 120 rpm instead of the old standard 60-70 rpm.

First PTG reamer I ever tried to use acted like it was dull and was using too much torque at 60rpm. Called PTG and Dave told me to bump it up to approximately 120 rpm. It cut like butter.

I am no machinist, but why doesn't he supply an instruction sheet the explains that his reamers cut better at 120 rpm?

I have had one PTG reamer which was soft and was unable to cut a chamber with it. It was replaced with no questions asked by PTG. Another didn't cut well but at least stayed sharp. Honing fixed it. The only reamer maker from whom I never got a flawed one is Hugh Henriksen. Every reamer I got from him was perfect in every way. Regards, Bill.