The build: 280 AI
Primary use: North American Game

Talked to a smith today to start the process. I want the rifle to be one I can use for hunting so aside from BR actions, which action would you use to make the most accurate hunting rifle a guy could ask for? Pros cons of any particular actions much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

My 280AI is built on a VZ24 Mauser and a Midway barrel; it shoots into one MOA easily. If you want a hunting rifle that you can shoot like a varmint rifle from the bench, then you want a stiffer action and a premium barrel. I have used a couple of Bartleins lately which shot quite well. I have found that I can not tell the difference between a 1 moa and a .5 moa rifle, whilst hunting big game.
Aside from BR actions, I use Win M70s. Rem 700s work very well if you don't mind the extractor (hype).

I agree with dpcd for a hunting rifle I wouldn't worry about getting a high $$ BR type action. Hard to beat a M70 or M700 for North American Game.

Waste your money if you feel the need. If your desire is to build an accurate hunting rifle, get a rem 700 and send it to a smith like Weaver, HCR, Sisk, Rifles Inc and have it 'tuned'.you will get what you want. 3 of them are here.

I would pass on spending money on making a model 700 action right when there are actions built right from the start.

well to answer you question- pay your money and take your choice. I have re barreled both and they are both nice and are capable of great accuracy. I personally have a varmint rifle I made with a borden. why? I met him at the Harrisburg show years ago and he seemed to be a nice guy and took the time to actually talk with me not at me. look at the features of both and decide what you want. in the end you will have a rifle with a custom action and not a "trued up " Remington if resale means anything to you.

Nesika, by Dakota?

I think Nesika, Stolle and Borden all make great BR and target actions. I have shot both the Nesika and Borden from the bench.

If I simply wanted to spend the $$ I would go Borden second choice Nesika. That said I would really have to scratch my head to ask why??

Now days I wouldn't even spend the $$ to true a 700 action. Spend extra $$ on a barrel you bet but not the action. From my experience a barrel can make a rifle a moa or a .5moa set up. Spending an extra $1000 or more on the action might turn your .5moa to a .45moa.

The high $$ actions gives you something to talk about even brag about. Nothing you shoot will ever know the difference. Neither will a normal shooters groups. Not many can shoot well enough to gain that .05moa.

Take a look at what the long range sniper is using. You won't see a custom action last I checked. His targets shoot back if he misses.

I like this article. Says for the shooter with too much $$$ in his wallet Nesika is an awesome rifle. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c...-bolt-action-rifles/

Right on, Ramrod.
Right on Duane.
I just like Win M70s, just because. And Mausers. But I like Model 70s better.

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By all means take a look at a Brno 21 or ZG47.

No question, I'd use a a Remington 700.

If this were football, I'd get penalized for "piling on".

I currently own rifles with Wichita, AMT BR, Stolle, Paramount, and other custom actions. But I would NEVER take any one of them hunting. It would be like entering a Lambo in the Dune-Buggy races. Top quality, but vastly less functional except in its own little niche.

My bolt action hunting rifles are factory stock Steyrs and pre-'64 Model 70s (and in the single shot category a couple of Ruger #1s which have been rebarreled not for more accuracy, but to get chamberings which Ruger has never offered).

It's every individual's own money, but I don't understand willfully wasting it on something totally inappropriate to his/her actual purpose.

My opinion is that if you simply want an accurate and reliable hunting rifle then go to WalMart and buy a Ruger but if you are as enthusiastic as most of us here and take pride in your equipment then choose one that you like and, if it is important, gives you bragging rights.
And for what it might be worth, my Borden rifle is my most accurate rifle and is the one I reach for rugged mountain hunts for goats, Ibex and sheep. It has proven ever bit as rugged and reliable as any Remington.

quote:

in real world hunting positions, those little half inch groups won't mean much.

and to be honest (as nice as they are) neither do octagonal barrels,near flawless inletting & checkering,
fancy walnut with ebony tip and metal engraving.

I assume you are looking at the hunting versions of these actions.

Kind of surprised by the responses, I equate the Remington vs. Stolle/Borden discussion to Chevy vs. Cadillac. Sure, you can buy a Remington (Chevy) and have a nice action and spend a bunch of money to make it like a Stolle (Cadillac) comes from the factory but you still have a Chevy in the end or you can just go ahead and buy the Cadillac in the first place. To each his own.

Stolle makes a great bench rest action, but I've heard very little about their hunting actions.

Have handled a few Borden actioned hunting rifles and they ware quite impressive.

Don't think you can go wrong with either. If you are like me, your reason for doing this is to have a great basis for the rifle without any additional work involved. Then if you miss a shot, you have no one to blame but yourself.

I was looking at the Pierce Titanium action for a 280 ai until I ran across a screaming deal on a Kimber Select.

Good luck with your decision.

quote:

Kind of surprised by the responses, I equate the Remington vs. Stolle/Borden discussion to Chevy vs. Cadillac. Sure, you can buy a Remington (Chevy) and have a nice action and spend a bunch of money to make it like a Stolle (Cadillac) comes from the factory but you still have a Chevy in the end or you can just go ahead and buy the Cadillac in the first place. To each his own

Years ago I would have agreed with you. Today with high quality CNC machining etc I don't know how much effective difference there is.

No doubt the Borden/Stolle might be a touch better. In the real world that gets you what? Take a new factory action stick a high quality barrel on it and it will shoot better than 99+% of the shooters that could use it.

I look at the websites like Nesika and for $3400 they will sell you a rifle with a "MOA" guarantee. Seems like Howa/ Weatherby did that for $6-700.

I'm a firm believer of you should build the rifle you want. If you want a custom action you for sure should buy one. If you are buying one because you feel that is the only way to get a MOA rifle then I would say it isn't needed.

I did forget to say I love the 280AI. First wildcat I ever built was the 280AI. Kick myself all the time for ever selling it.

Borden would be my choice.

Well I have a safe full of custom action hunting rifles with everything from BAT to Stolle. My hunting rifles are built to the same specs using my own reamers and when a chambering is in one of my BR cartridges it is the same except the barrel is a smaller taper.

That being said it is really up to the Smith building the rifle because the weakest link in the chain will be the first that breaks. Meaning that most people as shown above have no idea what a custom action will bring to the table.

If you are going to spend many thousands on a rifle better make sure your Smith knows what the hell he is doing. I am fortunate in using one of the best on the planet and never have to worry.

From what I can imagine in your situation a Remington clone from various folks would work good. Just ordered some different build components for a new build on a new cartridge for me the 7mm SAUM. Building a sporter first with the exact same 3 lug BR action, barrel, (smaller taper of course)chamber and a hunting stock with H&S bottom metal with a Jewell trigger albeit a hunting weight one.

Make yourself happy---why build a custom on a sows ear unless you have to...

Interesting. I never knew my Kimber (production gun) was closer to a Stolle,Stiller, Pierce, Bat actioned custom than my Rem 700 (production gun).
Is my PAC-Nor barreled, HS stocked, Jewell triggered tuned 700 put together by a good smith(custom) a Cadillac or Chevy ?
I cannot put my Kimber (SuperAmerica) in the same class as a custom gun made w/ a custom action or even a custom made on a 700 action or for that matter, a custom built on an 09 or Mex tuned by Kobe or LaPour.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
Interesting. I never knew my Kimber (production gun) was closer to a Stolle,Stiller, Pierce, Bat actioned custom than my Rem 700 (production gun).
Is my PAC-Nor barreled, HS stocked, Jewell triggered tuned 700 put together by a good smith(custom) a Cadillac or Chevy ?
I cannot put my Kimber (SuperAmerica) in the same class as a custom gun made w/ a custom action or even a custom made on a 700 action or for that matter, a custom built on an 09 or Mex tuned by Kobe or LaPor.

Not sure if that's directed at me but I did not mean to compare the Pierce to the Kimber. Bought the Kimber because I got the full rifle for less than the price of the Pierce action. For me it made sense but not anywhere close to a custom.

To me, a customized Model 700 has no interest no matter what was done to it. Now a full custom Mauser...

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It depends on how light you want to go.

If light is your goal i"d buy a titanium action, use a proof barrel and a carbon fiber stock.

If you want a normal weight rifle do this:

Surgeon, Defiance or Stiller with the 1913 rail.

HS Precision bottom metal and magazine (it's really nice)

Manners or McMillan stock of your style choice.

#3 fluted 284 barrel lobbed off at 22 inches.

quote:

Unfortunately, you aren't going to know unless you put it in a fixture, dial it in and then check all the surfaces and threads for runout, concentricity, contact, etc.. And then if you find something that isn't you have to remedy it.

Doug,
In no way am I trying to say that a new say M700 action is as tight dimension wise as s full custom. I started back when you had a choice of a M98, pre 64 and what ever Rem number there was in the mid 60s. I shot BR when the go to action was a sleeved 700 and you were shooting 222s.

Factory actions have improved a LOT in 40 years are they as good as a custom my "guess" is probably not. I simply haven't had one checked in the last 15 yrs.

In my "opinion" taking a current manufacture factory action and going through it for a hunting rifle is like blueprinting your car engine to drive to the quick shop. There is no "NEED" not to be confused with "WANT"

The original question was a good accurate action for a non BR hunting rifle. Yes he did mention customs but asked about other actions out there.

No doubt a custom action is closer to spec than a factory. What many of us are saying in our option for a hunting rifle so what. What does that custom action bring to the table for a hunting rifle. In our option they aren't "needed". Nor is going to the trouble to true up a factory action.

But if you get to the "WANT" that is a different issue. If you want a custom go for it I would still stick to a M700 clone of some type. If you feel that the only way you can have confidence in your rifle is using a custom action again go for it.

Some on this site have no issue with funds. So they can buy anything they want. They should make themselves happy.Others of us do have limits. For those with limits in my "opinion" a custom action over a new factory brings very little to the table for a hunting rifle.

I look at the accuracy guarantee for the high $$ customs and they are only MOA. I never had a low $$ MKX type factory barreled action that wouldn't give MOA or less.

You can spend all the $$ you want and have a nice accurate hunting rifle. Or you can spend far less and have just as much accuracy on a boring rifle.

And maybe as Boss said I'm simply naïve and don't understand what a custom action brings to the table on a hunting rifle.

If I was building a new BR rifle I would consider nothing but custom.

You said it; since I have a limit on funds, I have to go with Military Mausers, and whatever I can do to an off the shelf action. (which is everything).
For those who want and can afford high end stuff, go for it. Point is though, they don't perform any better in the field but pride of ownership means a lot, which is why I never carry anything "off the rack". Fortunately, labor costs me nothing.

Thanks guys! Very interesting. I don't post here much because I'm not a smith and I don't feel like I have much to add. All of your points are well taken.

That said...I chose Borden's Timberline. Why? A number of reasons...my thinking is if I am going to drop this much coin on a custom rifle, I don't want to sacrifice anything. Unlike you guys, I have no custom rifles. When I started hand loading, a lot of guys here suggested a custom when I'd ask questions about trying to tighten my groups. Many noted that I can buy five factory rifles trying to attain the accuracy I want and never get it. In the end, I would have spent enough money on factory guns to have built a gun that is capable of the accuracy I was after. They were right. I have a safe full of factory rifles and I have taken game with each of them. There isn't a thing wrong with them. They are all certainly capable hunting rifles.

Still, I have this burning itch. Do I need sub MOA groups for my hunting purposes? Nope. Do I shoot competitively? Nope. This will undoubtedly be my one and only custom rifle because my finances won't allow me to have a bunch of them lol. So, when I decided to pull the trigger (pardon the pun) on this build, I decided first and foremost that I wanted the most accurate rifle I can afford to build because trading her off or getting another is realistically- probably not possible for me.

I ordered a Broughton barrel, a Jewell trigger, Williams floor plate and a McMillan stock. I don't want to buy a factory action and then drop coin to bring it up to par with the other components. Lastly, when my time here is finished, I'll leave this rifle to my son. For him, there will be no corners cut. My goal is that this rifle helps me create many memories and that someday, it creates many more for him.

Congrats.

Only problem now is if it doesn't shoot there will only be one thing to blame.

Best of luck and enjoy your new rifle.

Always good to get fact based input but in the end what gun you get is purely a personal decision. It should do one thing: make you happy and only you can be the judge of that. I smoke the cigars and drink the bourbon I like not what is 'in'.I have a predilection for goofy calibers which doesn't make any practical sense but it warms my heart.

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Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Trax 's comments re imletting, ebony tips, etc has some merit..but consider that a companion/rifle is looked at and cared for more than it's shot. Simply brings a bit of joy and pride to the guy that considers his rifle more than a shovel..hell...Indians attached feathers to their tomahawks.

Just like i appreciate fine wood-blued rifles, I also appreciate fine craftsmanship in gold cased jewel encrusted watches with fine leather straps,
but when regularly in the elements-outdoors I will 100% opt for a stainless Rolex dive watch with syn.NATO strap.
I don't view such utilitarian construction watches (or rifles) as shovels...