I know it is hard to judge from a picture but I just got this BRNO VZ24 a few days ago and would like to make it into a sporter, either in 6.5x55 or 458 Win Mag (for use at medium 45/70 velocities, 350gr lead at 1900-2200fps), but I'm worried about the pitting. Should I break out the draw files? Or go back to shopping for an action?







And the whole gun,



I'm tempted to just clean up the military stock and shoot it as is, the bore is (after some 100 patches and an hour of cleaning) bright with no pitting and the bolt runs smooth and locks up tight. Serial numbers match on everything but the bolt.

quote:

Originally posted by Oregon45:
....I'm tempted to just clean up the military stock and shoot it as is....

This would be the best option IMO.

The pitting shown in your photos is often found below the stock line on a lot of Mausers. Too bad it's above on your rifle. Gonna be a lot of work and metal removal to get rid of what you've got going there. I'd shoot it as is or sell it and look for a better one. VZ24's are still fairly easy to find.

Might it be a good candidate for a surface grinder treatment?

I'm shooting a Steyr M1912 rebarreled to .30-30WCF that was in the same condition as your VZ-24. The .30-30 is another low pressure cartridge, although I admit to hot rodding it in this98 action.

LLS

Its really not that bad,if it were mine i would still go ahead and use it,but i would bead blast it,then have it blued,or parkerized.This way it will still look good with a matte finish and you wouldn,t be taken away any appericable amount of metal. I,m sure it would clean up nicer than you think agter bead blasting. vangunsmith

quote:

Originally posted by Tex21:
Might it be a good candidate for a surface grinder treatment?

How much can be safely removed when surface grinding a Mauser action?

Craigster,
You can take enough to remove the crest and the serial #'s and that pitting does not appear to be that deep.

Where it will be tough to get rid of is on the rail and below the left rail. It will be pretty much all hand work.

BTW, bead blasting it will not make it smooth and uniform, you will deepen the pits.

Pitting below the woodline is fairly common. Yours is the worst I've seen and I'd not waste my time trying to sporterize it.

Of the ones I have none of them have pitting above the woodline and several have no pitting at all.....hopefully you can find someone that wants a milsurp rifle for a truck gun. Sell it and get a VZ-24 in good shape.

Oregon45,

Please check your PMs.

Todd

I was buying quantities of VZ24s in 2001 at $70.
Now only available on the secondary market, the ask price is $250 and the bid price is $150. Your pitting will not change that much if at all.

That pitting is not going to affect function.
It is just an aesthetic and sporterized resale question you have to ask yourself.
That pitting is made more dramatic by the black vs shiny color.
I would either get the black out of the pits or get black color on the high spots.
Sometimes I clean things with a fine wire wheel mounted on a arbor in the grinder. Once is is all shiny I go through the cold blue process.

If that 8mm barrel has shiny groves at the muzzle and no pitting, then you have found the top 5% of VZ24 barrels.
The 8x57 is more useful than the other calibers you mention. It can be handloaded to 30-06 power levels.

I got one like that from a Good friend... it was drilled and tapped for Weaver Mounts.. I put a 1.5 to 4.5 power scope on it, and went hunting!

Oregon45, in my youth, I awoke one morning with a woman having a similar complexion as your Mauser. Based on this brief encounter, my only advise would be to make sure it doesn't have a headspace issue before you put anything into it's chamber and touch the trigger.

I have never seen a 98 Mauser or a Mosin 91/30 that had headspace as bad as the best Enfield No4.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
I have never seen a 98 Mauser or a Mosin 91/30 that had headspace as bad as the best Enfield No4.

I have, several times even. They exist. Checking a new gun is a standard precautionary measure that far too many skip. That check should not be limited to just headsapce.

Personally I would not use it for a customized rifle. I would, however sporterize it as I have done to two in said condition. If the barrel is as good as you think keep it in 8mmx57. Cut the barrel behind the sight and crown. Use the military stock and whittle it down and mount a recoil pad. Scout mount an inexpensive pistol scope. It'll probably serve as a good hunting rifle only for the next 100 years. If you would like photos send me your E-Mail address. I also have two others in 7mmx57.

The straight bolt handle is perfect for this configuration. This style is really a quick pointer almost like useing a shotgun. You will have many rewarding hours of simple gun work. roger

Just a thougth, but wouldn't it look kinda kool with a leafy pattern engraving job on it? If you could find a youg aspiring engraver that would welcome the challenge you could maybe possibly come out of it with a real neat rifle born out of disparity. Just a thougth.

I'd be tempted to leave the gun as-is, it looks like it is nice enough. If anything, sell or trade it for a nicer action.

Another option is to use KG Gunkote.

Fill in all the pits with permatex Cold Weld (JB-type stuff, JB would probably work too but the KG people recommend the cold weld stuff) and finish with KG. You can go over the lettering with a pin to clean them up. Then you'll need to lightly blast everything with 120 grit ALoX and finish, but it will look pretty presentable then.

Are you serious?

Oregon, I have a bolt the more closely matches the finish on your action. Tell you you what, I'll trade you bolts so then your rifle will have a more uniform finish.

While I do not consider the pits unsafe by themselves - out of the pictures - it just is not worth the time to remoove them. Buy a good one and save money.

Hello,
Though not seen in the past few years, some rough surfaced surplus/Mausers were stippled in the pitted areas and done so artfully that many purchased thinking they were of special nature.
Actually the stippling is not that hard to do and can be done with a design in mind and do look quite nice compared to the original rough, pitted finish. You are using the pitted areas to blend in with the stippling and keep a thin border in various areas and bingo, you have a very nice, unique action. Just a suggestion and perhaps there are some 'smiths out there capable of doing this type of work. Good Luck.

Huuummm, I thought there were a few folks who used to tell me that (constantly rusting) Blue Steel never rusts. If I am to believe their grand and infinite wisdom, what happened to that rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Huuummm, I thought there were a few folks who used to tell me that (constantly rusting) Blue Steel never rusts. If I am to believe their grand and infinite wisdom, what happened to that rifle?

Who said this rifle had been rust blued?

Why not buy a couple of stones thru MSC, pour some ATF on it, spend an hour stoning it and see what it looks like. If the pits are cleaning up, keep going. If not, you've got an hour in practicing your new stoning skills.... Of course, you would have another $20 or so invested.

Remember, my opinion and $1.50 will still get you a large coffee at McDonalds.....

MKane160

Howard,
Remember the signs you see in the forest and parks that tell you not to feed the bears. In this case do not let the Ignorantisaurus bait you into feeding him. He will suck your brains out because he has none.

What kind of stones would I need for polishing out the pitting? I bought this rifle largely to practice my "gunsmithing" skills, which are mainly stock fitting, checkering, metal polishing and anything not directly relating to safety (i.e. headspace, etc. I don't have the equipment, time or money to get into that).

Chic,
Good one.

Worst than avoiding pokeing a insecure skunk with a stick. Best to keep clear to avoid getting skunk spray on yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
...Who said this rifle had been rust blued?

Hey Howard, What would it have been protected with?

Oregon 45-

Don't spend any more time on this action. Personally, i would never have run one patch down the bore. You can make a sporter out of it, but it will always have pits showing, and as a result always be of low quality. If you really want to learn about making guns, then sell this gun ASAP and buy a clean action.

There is no point in spending more time and money on something that will always be third class. If you want to learn, then do it right.

But don't feel bad about buying this one-it is part of th elearning process. We have all made bad buys, and still continue to do so. Only now we have longer stretches of tiem between the bad buys (we hope!).

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Howard, What would it have been protected with?

Hey HotBore why don't you come out and plainly make your point; give up your backhand attempt at ridicule.

Oregon45-

I've had success with brownell's baking laquer-

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.as...ROSOL+BAKING+LACQUER

comes in different colors. I dolled up an M1 Carbine that had been buried in someones backyard with it. I gave the barrel, receiver, and trigger guard a cursory sanding, did some filing on some of the worst of it, then gave it a coat of the laquer in matt green and olive drab, then put it in a Choate pistol grip stock.

the laquer is self leveling and will fill some of the pitting, the suggestion of filling the really bad parts with epoxy is probably a good one.

the only problem you'd have is getting the thing in the oven

my carbine turned out nicely with maybe 3-4 hours in it.

would make a nice truck gun, loaner, scout-style, etc, as noted in some posts above.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
Oregon 45-

Don't spend any more time on this action. Personally, i would never have run one patch down the bore. You can make a sporter out of it, but it will always have pits showing, and as a result always be of low quality. If you really want to learn about making guns, then sell this gun ASAP and buy a clean action.

There is no point in spending more time and money on something that will always be third class. If you want to learn, then do it right.

But don't feel bad about buying this one-it is part of th elearning process. We have all made bad buys, and still continue to do so. Only now we have longer stretches of tiem between the bad buys (we hope!).

If your intent is the same as marks than the action he states is the right one.

If you want to enjoy some pleasurable hours and gain some experience, sporterizing that Mauser into a perfectly adequate hunting rifle ,truck gun or range blaster. Every rifle need not be a work of art as long as it meets your intent. roger

Oregon45-

I just took you at your word that you are trying to practice (learn?) gunsmithing skills. The whole point of doing gun work with your hands is to create something better and/or different than what can be bought off the shelf. If you start out with this action, the final project will never amount to much. It goes totally against the grain to what I understood was your intent. If you really want to work with your hands, dump this action and get a good one.

I agree. Seems they all get expensive before it's over with. Might as well start with a decent action.

Terry

I agree with Marc. If the rifle looks like it has leprosy, then it will be treated like a leper.

http://medicine.ucsd.edu/Clinicalimg/head-leprosy.jpg

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 500grains:
I agree with Marc. If the rifle looks like it has leprosy, then it will be treated like a leper.QUOTE]

99% of the gun work I do is for me. I'm a hack who makes stuff like no one else and enjoys doing it for me. I consider not to be as sophisticated as Marc, 500 or Craigster. Their world compared to mine is like Lotus is to a chopped and channeled Ford Mod.B or PB plymouth.

E-Mail me and I'll send photos and explanations. The enjoyment is not limited to the addmiration of the final product. It's in the doing and the expressing of new and different design ideas.Maybe no silk purses from sows ears but nice just the same and fun while creating. roger

quote:

I'll send photos and explanations. The enjoyment is not limited to the addmiration of the final product. It's in the doing and the expressing of new and different design ideas.Maybe no silk purses from sows ears but nice just the same and fun while creating.

now yer talkin'.

that rifle could get a new after-market finish applied by the owner, maybe a receiver sight, clamped, spotted, and drilled on a press by the owner, with a scout scope deal on the original rear sight mount.

maybe missisipian would weld a new handle on the bolt, the owner could do the finish work on it, have a smith re-heat treat it.

lotta potential in that rifle if a fellow wanted to stretch out, try a few things, and learn by doing... and have an end result that satisfaction could be taken in.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
Oregon45, in my youth, I awoke one morning with a woman having a similar complexion as your Mauser.

Did she have a head space problem? You're still my hero. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
..Hey HotBore why don't you come out and plainly make your point; give up your backhand attempt at ridicule.

It appears I've somehow managed to upset you and a couple of other "Experts" by simply pointing out the obvious. Such a shame.

Or, perhaps you all really do believe (constantly rusting) Blue Steel doesn't rust. On second thought, that is probably correct.
---

Hey Oregon45, I'm obviously not a fan of constantly rusting Blue Steel, and I'll toss in constantly warping Termite Food stocks while I'm at it.

But it sure looks like a fine action to "learn on" if you intend to do the Filing yourself. Surely you don't have a lot of money tied up in it.

On the other hand, using it "As Is" is an interesting idea too. I used to know a fellow who hunted everything with an old single shot 12ga. The forearm was duct taped to the barrel, the front Bead was a small screw and it was completely covered in a fine "Rust Patina". No big pits, cause he kept the Rust oiled, but the sweat from his hands did a job on it.

He was an amazing shot with it and extremely quick reloading the chamber. I saw him drop 3-doves out of a flight and went over to see just what kind of Pump/Semiauto he was using. So, I was very surprised to see the old Single Shot.

Best of luck with the rifle which ever way you go.