Just for fun , what do you think of this stock pattern and what would you adjust?

The forend isnt done or either is the rest for that matter. I might bring up the toe line just inback of the grip cap and maybe make the cap angle even more parrelel to the bore line.

Ive been adjusting the grip shape. I got stuck on how to improve the looks of the grip and Trex Hensley gave me some pointers that realy made it look better

I like ForrestB's Weibe stocks . I dont think im there yet though

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
I might bring up the toe line just inback of the grip cap and maybe make the cap angle even more parrelel to the bore line.

I think that will be right. There is something that just isn't right about the butt.

Please understand however I don't know much.

Always good to see folks really doing it, Rick-

Is this pattern based on the Husky sporter?

I like it so far.

How did you open up the grip?

Are you going to have a cheekpiece?

flaco

N.B. And thanks for posting. I've been depressed by posts of ugly stocks recently.

LOL.

GSP&, I've never made a stock, just giving some input from the aesthetic POV. The butt reminds me of the Savage 99R which was their "Heavy Rifle" had a larger than standard butt. So I tried masking off parts of it to see where it seemed large and didn't come up with anything definitive.

What I came up with is that in your photo the grip area is dark and the butt is light, making the butt stand out. Perhaps if you rub down the stock with alcohol to get the color closer to a uniform shade and post another picture.

Kudos to you for trying it, I have a few semi-inlets hanging around and I keep telling myself someday I'll have at it.

If you are using a scope I think that the top of the butt is too low but it might be OK for an iron site gun. I don't care for the "G&H" style angle from the bottom of the butt to the back of the grip cap. Look at some older Griffin and Howe stocks and you'll see how the line from the heel to behind the grip cap doesn't really flow from the front of the stock.
I don't like the double taper in the forend, I like a straight line from the forend tip to the trigger. Yours appears to take a steeper taper about where the site on the barrel is. It needs a better transition from the front of the bottom metal.
Your forend also looks a little short to me unless you have a very short barrel.
The curve of the gripline appears to steepen at the end. I think it would look better as a smooth curve.

I hope I don't sound too critical, these are just my opinions. I pick apart my own stuff the same way. Maybe somewhere in there it might give you an idea or two.

Here's a stock I liked by Clayton Nelson, it gave me some ideas:

.



.................DJ

Flaco yep it started as a cracked Husqvarna beech m640 stock. Cheek, kinda sorta


DJ I know what your saying. I had it pretty staright at 3/4" drop at heel and decided i didnt want too staight a stock with no drop and wanted a older rigby style so I cut it again and made it 1 1/8 drop at heel. Fits me fine with a scope otherwise the heel is sticking way above my shoulder

I think if I bring up the toe line and drop the comp nose, angleing back to the heel It will make the butt look thinner and not so much like a G&H like you say.

I'm going for a short rigby style forened about 8 3/8 " from the front ring then a barrel swivel band. I was looking at ForrestB's Duane Weibes and they have a shorter forend. Im useing the Devine Proportion Ratio!

Messin around

looks just a "tad" thick where the comb starts.
Just personal preference though...I would like to see (if it were mine) a half-inch (maybe) shorter vertical thickness.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
Just for fun , what do you think of this stock pattern and what would you adjust?

The forend isnt done or either is the rest for that matter. I might bring up the toe line just inback of the grip cap and maybe make the cap angle even more parrelel to the bore line.

Ive been adjusting the grip shape. I got stuck on how to improve the looks of the grip and Trex Hensley gave me some pointers that realy made it look better

I like ForrestB's Weibe stocks . I dont think im there yet though

There is a world of information in the old DBI
book called CUSTOM GUNS edited by Ken Warner.

Under the section on "studying the art" C.E.Harris outlines the PHIL PILKINGTON method of stock design. I have found this to be a
great way to begin.

This book has many pictures of rifles to gleen info from. Simply indespencable! They are
out of print, but can still be found on used book sites.

Many articles by Lenard Brownell can be found in the NRA book of gunsmithing.

Another good place to see stocks, and get good info is the DBI book of RIFLESMITHING by Jack Mitchell. This is a good one too and still in print, I think? Sterling Davenport shares a lot
of his methods.

Added some length to the butt it was short HUMMM... Where to file?

GSP, That picture might prove to be pretty useful. See if you can import it into Photoshop or picture editor and see if you can manipulate it a bit before you do any more filing.
I think the first thing I would try in the editor is to see what it would like with the butt bottom line moved up 1/4" or so, cope a line of the towel and paste it over the stock on your picture.
I realize that the top of the comb is traditionally supposed to be in the middle of the grip cap but it looks a little to steep an angle to me I wonder what it would look like a little more rounded.
Have you considered tapering the rear of your action slightly so that you can get a more gracefull line on the top of the grip? I think there is an article about it in the "Riflesmithing" book with the soft green cover. I forget off the top of my head who wrote it but it has articles about Sterling Davenport in the back and IIRC an article about shaping the tangs on mausers. I'm thinking it would look best if the curves on the bottom and top of the grip match as closely as possible, right now the top looks a little humped buy the tang.

I'm just kind of brainstorming here, I hope it might help a bit.
Let's talk about cheekpeice shape later..............DJ

Thanks for the input DJ. Yea Im giong to file the tang slimmer on the reciever, just havent done it yet. Then that hump will disapper with the rasp on the duplicated stock.
Im with you on the toe line and the nose and comb. Thats exactly what I want to wack off. Im just contemplating before I file more off, and looking at a bunch of pictures.

The butt end is 5 1/8 long. If I go about 4 7/8 I can take some off the toe line even removeing alitle more tappering deeper as I approach the grip cap, then the toe line will intersect a bit higher above the rear guard screw also.

Wish I had that drawing software were you can erase parts of a picture to see how it looks

I agree with djpaintles on the shaping, but remember that it is your own eyes that have to look at the stock. Don't be afraid to cut any part of the pattern to acheive the shape you want. Most of us change stock designs all the time by using auto bondo to fill the area. It sets up in a few minutes and can be redone as many times as needed. The area behind the grip cap and the butt end must be connected without a dip in the center of the grip. This is the web that appears in one of your stocks. What are you going to do with the forend?

So.

I cringed when I read DJ's initial comments.

I'm just finishing up on a stock inspired by the early Mausers, and most of the architecture of the stock conforms to ideals the polar opposites of what DJ admires.

Drop in butt, complex curves in fore end, etc.

I aspire to create work as perfect as DJ's--he's among the few amateurs here that post guild quality work--but, as always, de gustibus non est disputandum.

I also cringed--well, not as severely--when I read LesBrooks' advice, "Don't be afraid to cut any part of the pattern to acheive the shape you want."

While I borrowed a technique Les advised--clamping the pattern upside down to a board or bench to aid in aligning dramatic changes to a sawn wrist--I suffer from timidity.

In general, the closer I come finishing what looks to have the potential of being a beautiful piece, the longer I put off finishing it, if only because I'm afraid I'll screw up.

Or even the fear of those first cuts on a nice piece of wood.

In this case, though, I refrained from any attempt to narrow the nose of the comb, which I felt--and still feel--would have benefitted the stock. I like the very narrow comb seen on the early Mausers, or Mannlicher Schoenauers.

Specifically, I used a Fajen European Special pattern, thanks to good advice from Idared--who posted a couple of beautiful examples--but the pattern as I received it was very rough. I had to shape most of the flute on the cheekpiece myself, and, having done that, I was unwilling to mess with (narrow) the area in front of the cheekpiece.

I believe the advised technique is create a template with a straight edge, and relieve the area where the cheekpiece is, so the area in front of the cheekpiece is on the same plane as the area behind the cheekpiece.

Now that it's almost done, oh the regrets, the regrets.

flaco

N.B. Still, the blank is so beautiful, and the finish so sweet, I'm for the most part happy with my work.

What an easy-to-please SOB I am.

LOL.

Lets see Some pictures Flaco!

Ive cut this stock in half behind the rear tang 3 times and used wood dowels and epoxyed it back to get cast off and drop like I want.

I went with knife edge Rigby style comb also. I like the Earley mauser/ euro styles also, opposed to the high comp, no drop, styles where the butt is too high above your shoulder in shotting position.



I saved some of Idared's stock picture to reference. He did a great job on his stocks styles.

Idared's Stock Picture that I saved. I like the drop it has and the grip and butt lines.
oops, moved the grip and cap north too far
moved grip cap closer to trigger from 4 1/4' to 4 1/8" tilted front of cap down a bit, redid the inside curve of the grip

The grip and its shape and transition with the rest of the stock is the hardest part. Ive redone the grip probably 10 times.



Ill never use one of these beech husky stocks for a pattern again. Man are they screwed up. Inletting to deep, barrel channel sides un even and to deep , just geting it squared up and the barreled action positioned right in the stock is a major ordeal.

quote:

Originally posted by flaco:
So.

I cringed when I read DJ's initial comments.

I'm just finishing up on a stock inspired by the early Mausers, and most of the architecture of the stock conforms to ideals the polar opposites of what DJ admires.

Drop in butt, complex curves in fore end, etc.

Flaco, I'm glad you jumped into the conversation and thank you for the later compliment.
Tastes certainly differ and others preferences are certainly as valuable as mine! It would be a boring world if we all liked the exactly the same thing.
In GSP's picture I like the lines of his bottom rifle (with the lovely fiddleback). I'm curious which one you preferred.................DJ

Idared's stock looks just right. The grip angle is a little more open than your pattern. Also the angle of the grip cap points to the top of the buttpad which to me usually looks right. Also on Idared's stock the flow of the grip moves to the forend very well.
Your pattern is almost there.

All of this discussion reminds me of some advice that SDH gave to me. He makes full size drawings of each rifle before he starts cutting. I think the lines are easier to work out on paper than on the pattern. Now if I can just figure out where to put a drafting table...................DJ

GSP7-

Interesting that you saved the image of Idared's rifle.

Yep, that's the pattern I started with. Idared made some major changes in the grip, though.

It will be interesting to compare his final product and mine. LOL.

(And a little scary. At least for me.)

flaco

GSP7,
The bottom of your grip cap is too flat. Take a look at the rigby rifle and draw a line along the bottom of the cap and you will find that it intersects the top of the stock while yours is hitting part way down the but. Now keep the back of the grip cap where it is and pivot the front down. After you do that, I would change the line of the bottom of the grip and give it a bit more curvature. Just a touch, and if it ends up looking like crap, I will edit this to say NOT to do it.

Secondly, does the rear tang still have the cocking piece slot as issued? If so, you can taper the rear tang to get a better line by making the slot come flush at the end.

It looks like you have an angle in the forearm starting at the front of the bottom metal.

Put in the loading port bevel and your bolt knob slot. You can cut both of those later with inletting black but your duplicator can save you some time if you get it the way you want it now.

I spent the weekend up on a remote lake in a cabin with Duff,my english setter, giving my wife a "good listening to", or I would have responded earlier. I also found out that Duff also points bobcats and that #7 1/2 shot out of a single shot 20 ga. is a great load at about 8 yards (up a tree) on a cat.

I printed your picture and drew the overlay of what I see in the Wiebe style stock. Line A shows where the bottom line is located. Most other stockmakers tend to lower this line to come out at the rear screw head. Line B shows more of a curve with a little raised area from the rear of the guard area. Line C is cut more to the bottom of the tang milled slot with a smooth radius back to the area where Line D is located. Notice that Mr. Wiebe moves the comb forward to about in line with the bottom of the grip cap. We all have our little things that make us all unique in shaping. There is not a perfect guide for anyones work. Some like one shape and some like our women (I mean of guns with curves). That's for you young guys!!!

I like all styles if the workmanship is done very well. So hope this help you see what we are trying to tell you on your stock.

Les

Once again, thanks Les-

For your analysis, and patient advice.

On the stock I just posted, we ended up cutting a block at an angle to insert at the grip. This lengthened the grip, and the angle dropped the butt.

This was a pretty naive move.

As my fellow employee at the gunsmith's said, like "a couple of bear cubs trying to f**k a football."

I love long grips, but in the future I hope to have at least a profile to provide some guidance for my fumbling in the dark.

flaco

I appreciate the kind words about my rifles but in truth I did not have much to do with how they look other than stating my preferences as far as shape is concerned. I have a fair sized hand with long fingers so I much prefer a stock with an open grip. Some are more open than others but all tend to be more open than most people prefer. I also in general prefer a bit more drop at the heel than most people. Because of these two preferences I generally have to have a stock made rather than being able to buy a semi-inletted one.

Having said all this, my brother Grandview shapes most of my stocks for me. He has an artistic eye, something I have never had, and is a fanatic about proper lines in a stock. Everything he has shaped for me always fits great and also looks great to my eye. He presently has a project in the making for me which will use an older Fajen Europeon Special stock for a pattern. The rifle will feature a trim half octagon-half round barrel so the blank will need slimming to make it look right as well as the grip and cheek piece shapping. I discussed it with him in person this past weekend while I was back there and he knows how he will proceed and more importantly what it will look like when fully shaped. I am not blessed with that ability. So, if you have questions about any of my stocks, other than measurements of sorts, you probably will learn a lot more corresponding with him than me. I have never known him to be stingy with information or his experiences.

I might add, I admire you folks who shape your own stocks. I appreciate all my rifles but have to admit they would never look as attractive as they do if I had to depend on my abilities as a complete stockmaker.