Gentlemen,

I have aquired 3 M98 receivers, a 1917 Erfurt, and 2 Yugo Preduze 44s (std length LR actions). I plan on just using the Erfurt for parts (bolt, bolt release, etc) due to issues encountered with Erfurts. I plan on building the other two actions into 1). a 30-06 or 9.3x62 working rifle, synthetic stock, matte finish,yada, yada and 2) a "guild" rifle in either 6.5x55 or 257 Bob, double triggers, walnut stock (have stock), rust blued, butterknife bolt etc.

I want the clip loading features removed (hump and clip lips, ala FN commercial actions), actions trued, drilled and tapped and re-hardened properly. Who can do this correctly at a reasonable price? The bluing/refinish work I'll farm out when it comes time to assemble. I'm still gathering parts, but would like the action work done well in advance.

Which Pred 44's did you get? The M48 or the K98 reworks?

Th K98 of course is a standard length 98 but the M48 is not, it's an intermediate length. You might squeeze the 9.3x62 into one due to its slightly shorter OAL but a standard 98 would be better.

They are German K98 reworks, standard length LR receivers.

Mark Stratton can do the metal work for you.


http://www.gunmaker.net/metalsmithing.html

YOu might want to consider locating a 1909 style floorplate/triggerguard assembly and send that to Mark as well. He can reshape it to look pretty nice. You might also want to have a straddle floorplate made for it. (or you could purchase a new unit from Blackburn that will be designed for the cartridge you are going to use)

quote:

I plan on just using the Erfurt for parts (bolt, bolt release, etc) due to issues encountered with Erfurts.

Please elaborate on such 'problems'

-Spencer

Call Roy Watson. (417)-394-2526

BlackHawk1,

Not wanting to steal your thread, but I also have a military mauser that my dad brought back during WWII. It's well made in great condition and was made by Sauer & Sohn before the quality control went to pot.

I was doing some book research on building military mausers yesterday when I came across a book co-authored by Dr. Zwholl?? He indicated that reseach has shown that the normal steel in military mausers was around Rockwell 35C. That the strength was not in the steel but was in the design of the reciever. The only two exceptions to that were that late WWII recievers were made too brittle and would crack. Also that the machined thumb cut weakened the design and could crack in rebuilds. If one suspected that the steel was off the Rockwell 35C range, NOT TO HEAT TREAT IT. Further, if one was to pay for labor to remove the clip slot etc., even if the action was free, it would be cheaper to buy a commercial 98 reciever in the long run.

Does this info ring true? I would love the idea of turning mine into a 458WM. I don't think I'd want a scope (just iron sights), and the trigger and flag safety is perfect as is so I wonder if it would be feasible for a basic working rifle.

Blackhawk, keep us posted on which route you go and how it turns out.

Thanks!
Gary

GaryVA-

Like you, I'll apologize for hijacking the thread, but....

Even though I am unacquainted with your Dr. Zwholl, I'd suggest that decades of empirical evidence--tens of thousands built?, hundreds of thousands built?--prove that Mausers make exceptional sporting rifles.

That said, even the most committed bubba would be reluctant to cannibalize your Sauer.

If it's original, and in "great condition," it's almost certainly worth something on the collector's market.

Best, perhaps--and I think building rifles is about as much fun as one can have legally--to find another appropriate donor action to rescue.

flaco

SCR,

Erfurt Mausers manufactured prior to the 1924 have steel that's not as strong as those manufactured later. Furthermore, Erfurt Kar98s used a large ring barrel in small ring action, which don't leave a lot of metal surrounding the barrel shank. Probably be alright for a low-pressure cartridge, but I'm not pulling the trigger.

GaryVA,

If the Pred 44s are ~ Rockwell 35C (to be confirmed by testing)then is it OK to machine them without fear of losing the steel temper and require rehardening?

I know...I know, commercial mauser receivers would be a lot less hassle and money in the long run, but I have a pair of beautiful Pred 44 receivers just crying for some Lothar Walther barrels and I must tend to their needs . Besides, these projects are gonna take me a long time to complete.

Makes sense I guess, espeicailly the point about the receiver ring being 'thin.'

This one will be a 6.5X55 so I am not too worried.

But if you figure they were chambered in 8X57, a somewhat high-pressure round, I don't see why it wouldn't be good enough to handle at least 8X57 pressures.

-Spencer

Gary

Go to your local library and see if they have a copy of the October 2004 Outdoor Life Magazine.

In that magazine is an Article by Jim Carmichel entitled "3 Rifles to Hunt the World"

The first rifle that he talks about is one that he actually built himself, and it happens to be a .458 Win Mag on a Mauser Action. There is a fantastic photograph of that Rifle taken by Mustafa Bilal who is known world wide as a gun photgrapher.

Perhaps the story and the photos will give you some inspiration for building your own .458 Win Mag out of your Mauser action.

One of the other rifles mentioned and photographed is a beautiful .338 Win Mag by David Miller on a Mauser Military Action. It is interesting to look at the photo of the Miller Mauser from years back and compare it to a contemporary Miller Rifle as currently being shown on a thread started by LeeC I believe.

Blackhawk,

I'm all for building up military Mausers! I have 4 in the works right now. I know its cheaper to buy a commercial action and go from there, but I'm having fun and that's what counts.

I must warn you though that if you desire to use a military action as a basis for a sporting rifle, bare in mind that pretty much all sense of practicality and thrift have gone out the window. It takes a lot of time, effort, and expense to pull off a good custom on a military action and while it is done all the time, its quite an investment. With that thought in mind however, trudge ahead. You'll most likely love what you end up with.

Tex

I can't let this one go by without a comment. GaryVA, leave that WWII "bring back" ALONE. Leave it like it is to remember your dad by. He won't be with you forever. It is worth, in great shape, at least $500 on the collector market. The Russian captured and rearsenalled K98's are running from $200-300 dollars to the dealers! The real value, however, is sentimental. Your dad gave up a lot to bring that gun home!

Now go find yourself a VZ 24 to build on and have some fun

Clemson

Clemson, your advice does not fall on deaf ears. The rifle was brought back in my dad's seabag (it has the "seabag" cut on the stock). It's been well kept and unused since. I've been debating turning it into a big bore over the last 15 years. Everytime I get my courage up to do so I chicken out.

BlackHawk, I'll go back Sunday and re-read the info in the book and give you the correct title and author. If memory serves me correctly, the author named the method the Germans used for heat treating. He indicated that it was surface only for finish and corrossion resistance not strength as the strength of the reciever was in its design not the steel. I don't recall if he went into detail as to why not to heat treat it but he did give a list of cartridges that are proven safe for the small ring and the large ring as long as it fell in the normal Rockwell 35C range. I believe it went on to say that testing would only be warranted if the reciever came from a questionable source. I also think it indicated to totally avoid the later WWII recievers and it may have actually given dates. I've read on forums refering to mausers made of soft steel, but the book refered to the problem being that the steel would be too brittle.

Gary

Ok, project #1 one (working rifle) is somewhat started off. I won a commercial steel triggerguard assembly (Interarms/Yugo take-off?) and a Bell & Carlson stock on eBay. I've pretty much decided it will wear a 30-06 Lothar Walther barrel.

Where can I get 2-3 position M70 type swing-safeties?

Blackhawk

There used to be a plethora of three position safties available. PM Enterprises made them, as did Dakota Arms, and Rayborn. Now, I think about all one has left is Gentry and New England Custom Guns.

As far as two position, look again on Ebay. There are a couple of fellows that regularly aution the completed shroud unit with the 2 position safety already installed. Price about $75.00, which isn't too bad. Just type "Mauser Safety" on the search line and see what comes up.

If you have never installed one of either the two or three position before, be prepared that it is not just a screw it on and go shoot propostion. There will be some stoning required on the cocking piece, and there are times when the threads are too tight when installing the three position kind. And you have to decide what trigger you are going to use because it is important to set the sear on the trigger before you install the safety. Might not be a bad idea to consult a local smith with experience in installing those types of safeties.

Blackhawk,

The book is "Bolt Action Rifles - The definitive work covering every major design since the Mauser of 1871" co -authored by Frank de Haas and Dr. Wayne van Zwoll. They appear to had/have impeccable resumes.

STEEL & HEAT-TREATMENT (Military Mauser):
The M98 Mauser obtains its strength from its design rather than by the use of specially formulated or alloyed steels, or by some special heat-treatment.
M98 receivers were made of tough quality low-carbon steel. After machining, the only heat-treatment the receiver got was carburizing (case-hardening). This resulted in a hard outside surface to resist wear and rust, but left the core relatively soft for strength.
Pre-WWI era, especially small ring type, tend to be somewhat softer then these manufactured in the 1920s, 30s and early 40s. Receivers made late in WWII period or those dated "44" and "45", are either very soft or hard, mostly the latter. The normal range of hardness for a good reciever seems to be about 35C Rockwell.
There is no evidence to indicate that any re-heat-treatment of a soft M98 receiver will improve it or make it stronger. It is inadvisable, therefore, to have this done.
Buy action, or complete rifle from a reputable dealer. Avoids those dated before 1920 and those dated after 1943. Pick one that was made by one of the better plants. Examples are 1930s Mauser, DWM, FN or BRNO(VZ-24). There is no point in having such receiver tested for hardness.
The only major weak point in the M98 military action is the thumb notch in the left receiver side rail.

Blackhawk, I hope this info is helpful to you or anyone interested in a military mauser build.

Gary

Thanks for the research GaryVA! Unfortuately one of my Pred 44s is a 1944 model. I'll use that one for the "guild build" and chamber it for 6.5x55, 257 Bob, or similiar.