I have a Smith and Wesson Model 28 that I inherited, it appears that it has been shot very little and is in very good shape. But I am having an issue with it.

It is an older Model 28 (no dash, pined and recessed)

When it is clean everything works fine. You can cock it in single action and fire in double action without issues.

However, the last two times I took it to the range I have had issues. After firing a few rounds it gets very difficult to cock in single action or fire double action. The last time that this happened I thought that a bit of powder may have gotten behind the extractor and caused the issue so this time I took q tips to the range with me to clean that area. This did not change anything.

I have checked all the screws and they are all tight, the extractor rod is tight. I can’t figure out the issue?

Today after a firing 6 shots through it, it got difficult. I fired 6 more and still had issues. Then I cleaned it and everything is fine.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

You can pull the side plate and check it may need cleaned up may have some rust, How much end play do you have in the cylinder?
does the cylinder become hart to swing out?
If your shooting reloads the primers may be backing out ????

When the problem(s) start,,does the gun still exhibit hard SA & DA cycling if you DO NOT clean anything,,but just go ahead and operate the action (Dry Fire) with no cartridges in the cylinder?

Have you tried different ammunition and gotten the same issues?

So few rounds, 6 or so rounds is nothing where you would think of it starting to cause a problem with powder debris building up betw parts and surfaces jamming up any motion.

The extractor rod backing out is something that can cause this issue. But you mentioned that it is tight. The front face of the rod should not touch the edge of the housing under the bbl that holds the locking pin. It should clear it enough so you can see the locking pin and it's tapered shape dropped into the end of the rod when the action is locked in position.

Make sure the Extractor rod is not bent. That'll make the SA and DA motion hard especially on 3 or 4 of the chambers as the bent rod hits the cut out under the bbl.,
This will be an issue where the action is sparkly clean or not though, so probably not part of the problem here.
You had check if anyway by watching the rod rotate as you spin the open cylinder. If it wobbles,,it's bent.

Check the firing pin hole inside the face of the frame on the breech. Make sure the FP hasn't punched a burr forward and out toward the cylinder.
Some will from just the way they are constructed. That burr will hang up on the fired primer slowing the action down when you try to cycle it.
Some ammo has harder primers than others, The softer primer stuff can snag pretty good on that, Harder primmer cup ammo won't be much of an issue and can go un-noticed.
If the burr/upset metal is there, a simple stoneing or diamond lap/hone to cut it down flat with the rest of the breech face and no more fixes it.
Peaning it back into position does no good as the firing pin will just push it back out again in a few cycles.

While your looking for any burr on the breech face,,check the firing pin bushing itself to make sure it isn't coming loose and walking forward during firing.
The bushing thru which the firing pin hole is bored is simply staked in place and they have been known to loosen.
Usually they set back as the fired cartridge pushes the bushing back in place, but being loose is not good and debris can get in back of it after awhile.
Then it can't sit back where it belongs and hangs out a bit and can slow down the cycle as it drags on the case head.
Dry fire the pistol and see if that pushes the bushing out of the face of the breech any amt at all.

About all I can think of right now.

Nice early revolver..

Ditto on check the ammo. Have had a number of guns lock up with cheaper promotional loads, especially hot 125 grain UMC magnum loads, b/c the bullet jumps crimp and backs the shell up to where it binds the revolver. See if it dry fires okay. Then maybe run some 38 special loads through it and see if it's good.

Or shoot 1 shot, pull all the other cartridges out and measure OAL.

The model 28 was/is a great revolver; just a 27 in a matte finish. You most likely know this already but it doesn't hurt to add (some out there might not know) when removing the side plate it is semi-recessed/interlocked to the frame. Do NOT try to pry it out!!!

Thank you for all the responses guys! To answer some of the questions:

I did pull the slide plate before this range session and it is very clean inside (especially for a gun made in the 50’s), It was a little dry so I added some oil to the pivot points and the sliding parts (technical terms there…)

The cylinder is a little stiffer than normal to come out, but not significantly hard.

I started with my reloads today, they are 38 special SWC with a fairly light load. The next 6 were factory 38 special +P loads with the same issue. I have had this issue with three different loads (2 reloads, and one factory load) I shot both of the loads in a second gun today (a 28-2) without an issue.

Yes, it does still exhibit the issue when dry firing after firing it. Once clean I have not been able to repeat it during dry firing.

The extractor rod is tight (really tight I tried to remove it but was unsuccessful) the rod runs true it is not bent.

I just checked the firing pin hole and it is clean. I also looked at the brass and I did not notice and unusual scratches on the brass.

No burrs on the breach face. I did not realize that the firing pin had a bushing. I thought that it was one piece with a ring machined around it. You learn something new every day. The bushing appears to be solid.

I was not able to find my feeler gauges tonight and for the life of me I cant figure out where I put them so I was not able to measure the cylinder gap. But when looking at the two pistols (the 28 and the 28-2) the 28-2 has a larger gap between the barrel and the cylinder. Now if I push back on the cylinder of the 28 the gap opens up to about the same as the 28-2 (just looking at it visually). The odd thing is that if I push back the same way on the 28-2 it does not move. It appears that the cylinder lock is pushing the cylinder forward on the 28, Is this normal?

Brad,

The forward/backward movement of the cylinder is endshake. Most revolvers have some, but it's not desirable. If it's excessive, it could be causing the timing/lockup problem you're having. Power Custom makes shims to fix it.

Also, just make sure that the screw retaining the yoke is not backing out under recoil and allowing the whole cylinder assembly to move forward and back.

A couple of thoughts:
First be careful! I have seen AD's with revolvers that got difficult to operate, the operator tried to force things and the revolver fired not in the intended direction.

Once the gun gets difficult to operate, does the cylinder open with difficulty or about as usual?
If you open the cylinder does it spin freely and if closed without removing any cartridges is it still difficult to operate? With the cylinder open and the cylinder latch pushed back does the action operate easily? And last, only do with all 6 chambers fired, manually try to cock SA and use the other hand to help rotate the cylinder. Go just far enough to get the cylinder bolt to unlatch and then see if you can rotate the cylinder by hand.
These are just some steps to try to localize the problem.
In my experience the most common cause of this behavior is the extractor rod coming unscrewed (LH threads).
C.G.B.

Don't forget...it is VITAL...that early S & W revolvers the ejector rod screws off the other way to modern S & W revolvers.

Thanks for the info on Endshake, I went to the midwayusa web page and checked out the shims. Larry also has a video on it that was very informative. I think that this may have something to do with what I am experiencing. I need to go find my feeler gauges and measure it.
https://youtu.be/JII__KNLYY0


I need to take another trip down to the range to answer the new questions. I will go to the range tonight or tomorrow and test it and get back to you.

This gun was made in 1956 (I think) so I think that it has conventional threads on the ejector rod. I will try to disassemble it again tonight.

Thanks again for all the help guys, I really appreciate it!

You might try loading 1 or2 rounds or however many it usually takes to bind things up and shoot those then when it gets stiff try pulling the hammer part way back and rotating the cylinder by hand. If it rotates hard that would verify that the problem was the cylinder binding and not something internal like a bad hammer pivot or hand binding or whatever.

I measured the endshake and with the cylinder in its resting position I was able to get the .0015 feeler gauge in (Just barely). When I pulled the cylinder back towards the hammer, I was able to get the .010 feeler gauge in. This is almost the same measurements that Larry had in the video. I think that we are on to something here.

I took the gun to the range and fired the same semi-wadcutter reloads that I used last time. This time it started binding after 12 rounds.

When I opened the cylinder it was stiff even after the ejector rod was disengaged.

I then emptied the spent rounds and closed the cylinder and dry fired the gun again. Still stiff.

I pulled the cylinder back towards the hammer when I cocked it and it cycled fine.

So, I loaded it up and fired more rounds, this time I would pull the cylinder back as I cocked it. I was able to cycle it while pulling the cylinder back.

I think that it is an endshake issue, I ordered .002 and .004 shims and will attempt to set the endshake. From what I have read it should be .006. So if I have .010+.0015 that would be .0115 total, I am assuming that I would use a .002+.004 and that would put me around .006?

Do you guys concur?

Thanks again for all the help!

Brad, when using oil for lube, use Singer sewing machine oil. I always use it for oiling the springs inside my bolt action rifles. Not that it matters down here but if you are hunting in below zero temps. it can be critical. The singer sewing machine does not freeze or become coagulate. In a rifle in sub-zero temps that could easily kill you when your firing pin didn't move.

I had a Ruger revolver that had to tight of gap between the cylinder and barrel.

After one would fire it about 30 rounds the carbon build up at that point would make it hard to turn.

I open the cap a little bit and for the last 40 years it has worked just fine.

Sounds like way too much cylinder travel. Take a look at the end of the yoke and see if it has been abused. You can use shims or get a good smith to tig it up and recut it. I don't have any problems with the gap set as low as .004. These days S&W seems happy with gaps as big as .010-.012.
C.G.B.

The thing that is odd to me is that this gun is like new. The bluing shows no wear. The cylinder shows almost no wear on the part that rubs against the cylinder lock. The internals show no sign of wear. The end yoke shows no sign of wear that I can see. Everything feels very tight and crisp. It is in better shape than the other Model 28 that I have and I know that one had less than 2 boxes shot through it when I got it.

The gun was in the box wrapped in the paper with the cleaning kit and screwdriver. It was impeccably clean, no carbon anywhere, clean cylinders and barrel. I would not be surprised if it was only fired a few times.

What confuses me is that from what I have read endshake is caused by firing a lot of really heavy loads. This gun does not show any signs of that that I can see.

I ordered the shims and will give it a try. Worst case I can take them out and send it to someone if I need too. I will let you guys know what happens with the shims.

Thanks again for all the help!

Without seeing the gun and omitting high primers in your ammo, I would check the springs as back in the day the smiths cut the springs to enhance a trigger job, the hammer spring was either slimmed or just loosened up, and the trigger return spring is weak from the cutting of perhaps a coil to many..worth checking out or replaced anyway..At any rate an up to date trigger job sounds in order to me..A Smith is easy to fix no matter what its doing, needs to be honed most likely and springs replaced..Timing is off....but that's without gun in hand making a 100% diagnosis possible..

I agree that a hands-on from a knowledgeable smith is worth the money. I will admit that as much as I love S+W, the quality of the merchandise has gone a bit south since the P+R days.(thank you Bangor-punta) And that new sell-out lock has really soured me as well. About 12 years ago S+W advertised a limited run of the 2nd model H.E. in 44 SPL. w. 4" bbl. (guaranteed to be just like the original). I, of course, ordered one in Nickle; when it got here it had that new G.D. safety on the side. I never even shot it. I traded another member for another 1911 A1.

The shims showed up in the mail today and I decided to give one .004 shim a try. With the .004 shim in I got a gap between the cylinder and the barrel of about .005.

I took the gun down to the range and shot 50 of my SWC 38 Special reloads. Not one single issue. After 50 rounds I could still see clearance between the barrel and the cylinder and everything functioned great.

I think that it is fixed!

Thank you so much for the help, I would have never gotten here if it was not for your guidance.

Great news, Brad! Glad it worked.